Help with Employee Business Expenses

[rfk]

Need corroboration on the following:

> Client works for the state with W-2 situation (two to three weekends per month)
> Has to travel 80 miles to get to the location to do the work.
> Has miles up and back of course (no doubt commuting but? ...)
> Has motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.
> Stays there approximately 2 days during the requested time as an employee.

Questions are (2nd opinions):

I think that "commuting" miles are not deductible; meals are deductible while not at facility; and the motel must be deductible. Any other thoughts? Would appreciate interjection with what is deductible; I believe I know what is, but want to compare notes.

Thanks in advance for help!

rfk

[Uncle Sam]

Employee Business Expense

>as motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.
> Stays there approximately 2 days during the requested time as an employee.

Don't quite get what this means -

Motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.

Can you clarify that? What type of work is done and where in relationship to the motel is her workplace? Why doesn't she eat "at the facility"? Is it not available to her?

A state employee should be reimbursed for the out of pocket stuff while on duty -
by completing a voucher.

[rfk]

For Uncle Sam

Hi Uncle Sam,

Thanks for the response.

>as motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.
> Stays there approximately 2 days during the requested time as an employee.

Don't quite get what this means -

Motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.

*** She drives from her tax home to a motel and spends the night sleeping - goes to work in the morning. Meals are eaten during time she is off from the job during the 2 day period

Can you clarify that? What type of work is done and where in relationship to the motel is her workplace? Why doesn't she eat "at the facility"? Is it not available to her?

*** She is clergy at a prison in central CA; as stated above, she does not drive directly to the facility - goes in the mornings, etc.; eating a meal or 2 at the facility, but not all.

A state employee should be reimbursed for the out of pocket stuff while on duty -
by completing a voucher.

*** A letter from her employer states that she is not eligible for reimbursement; she pays for gas going there, some of the meals, and the lodging.

Thanks, Uncle Sam. I just need another brain on this, although not that complicated.

rfk

[Uncle Sam]

Employee Business Expenses

From what you've told me - there are no employee business expenses to be deducted.

The car travel is all commuting.
The hotel is at HER convenience, not the State's - to save a 2nd commuting trip. Maybe the excess of what she pays over the per diem rate allowed in that area could be considered - but that's it.
The food - she's not entertaining any business customers in prison - so the food is on her.

[Lion]

Tax Home

If she's an employee, then her work site area is her tax home. All her living expenses and commuting expenses to get to work are personal. She's not traveling away from her tax home on business. Does she have more than one work location for that employer or other reason that her tax home would not be in the vicinity of the facility?

[Gary2]

The only question in my mind is whether that 80 miles is still in the "general area" of the tax home. If it's freeway miles, then probably not. If it's back roads in mountainous country that requires chains in winter, then perhaps. But I'm guessing prison + central CA implies I5 or similar highway.

[taxea]

I agree with Uncle Sam. Prior day travel is her choice so motel is not deductible unless she has to stay for more than one day.
If she has a usual "office" that she reports to and this travel is a temp location then the expenses are deductible except for the extra night in the motel.
If this is where her work is normally on the days that she is employed then it is not deductible.

[appelman]

Reductio ad absurdum?

Something disturbs me about the foregoing analysis. I presume the lady works during the week for another employer at a location near her home. What if she lived in San Francisco and traveled to Los Angeles for her weekend job with the state. Would the airfare still be a commuting expense?! It seems to me that her situation should meet the "traveling away from home" criterion on p. 3 of Pub. 463. In that case, the only commuting expense would be travel from her motel to the facility.

[Gary2]

Something disturbs me about the foregoing analysis. I presume the lady works during the week for another employer at a location near her home. What if she lived in San Francisco and traveled to Los Angeles for her weekend job with the state. Would the airfare still be a commuting expense?! It seems to me that her situation should meet the "traveling away from home" criterion on p. 3 of Pub. 463. In that case, the only commuting expense would be travel from her motel to the facility.

While Pub. 463 devotes a couple of columns to defining "tax home" for this purpose, and has a clear rule for the amount of time that must be spent away from home (the sleep or rest requirement), it doesn't give much guidance as to what "away from" means. Presumably that leads to the inevitable "facts and circumstances" non-answer. How would your example change if, instead of Los Angeles, the destination were San Jose? Santa Cruz? Where do you draw the line? Does driving versus airplane or helicopter change the answer? I don't know - which is why I begged the question previously.

Complicating matters is that this is a second job. The commuting rules briefly mention that a second job doesn't get the same treatment as a temporary assignment (Pub 463, page 14, under "Two places of work"). However, the travel rules in chapter 1 of Pub 463 only touch on a second job in the context of sequential jobs (e.g. the Cincinnati/Miami seasonal job example on page 3).

Perhaps we need to understand how much time the commute takes, and why the client chooses not to return each night. For the sake of comparison, it's not unheard of for people to commute daily from New Haven, CT. to Wall Street in Manhattan, about 80 miles.

[Uncle Sam]

Employee Business Expense

Nothing in the OP's facts does it mention "commuting to 2nd job" so discussion regarding 2nd employment is out.

Why bring in facts that are not relevant?

[MAMalody]

Need corroboration on the following:

> Client works for the state with W-2 situation (two to three weekends per month)
> Has to travel 80 miles to get to the location to do the work.
> Has miles up and back of course (no doubt commuting but? ...)
> Has motel expenses when she stays there and meals too when not at facility.
> Stays there approximately 2 days during the requested time as an employee.

Questions are (2nd opinions):

I think that "commuting" miles are not deductible; meals are deductible while not at facility; and the motel must be deductible. Any other thoughts? Would appreciate interjection with what is deductible; I believe I know what is, but want to compare notes.

Thanks in advance for help!

rfk

Based on the above presentation, it would appear that the client ops to live where she does not work as an employee. Absent any further information, her tax home would appear to be 80 miles from where she lives which would make all of the mentioned expenses personal in nature and not deductible.

[David1980]

Based on the above presentation, it would appear that the client ops to live where she does not work as an employee. Absent any further information, her tax home would appear to be 80 miles from where she lives which would make all of the mentioned expenses personal in nature and not deductible.

Agree. The facts as they stand now indicate no employee business expenses.

[JohnH]

This client needs to come up with some different facts if they expect to get a tax deduction.

[Burke]

A state employee should be reimbursed for the out of pocket stuff while on duty -
by completing a voucher.

*** A letter from her employer states that she is not eligible for reimbursement; she pays for gas going there, some of the meals, and the lodging.rfk

This is the biggest clue. Reading between the lines, this must be her only employment with the state agency. If she worked for them during the week, and this were part of her responsibilities, she should qualify for reimbursement. Since she does not, its on her own volition, and I would consider it all commuting expense, therefore non-deductible under these facts and circumstances. The lodging and meals come under the same rules as the mileage.

[taxxcpa]

If the employee worked for the same employer at two locations, then the main location would he the tax home. However if there are two employers, then the only way there could be a deduction would be if the employee drover to the first job, then, on the same day drove to the second job.

Having one job during the week and another job on the week-end makes all travel commuting and it would not qualify as being away from the main job site overnight (for the week-end job).

I had a police officer client that wanted to deduct his apartment rent because his home was in one city but as a condition of being promoted to Captain he had to be available 24 hours a day in the city in which he worked. I could find no justification for such a deduction.