PTIN and Big Box Tax Prep

[taxea]

I would like to hear from employees of HRB and the like as to whether they are required to follow the new registered preparer rules or whether they are exempt due to where they work.

I have heard it both ways and would like to confirm which is true.

How about it all you Block, Liberty, etc employees...please enlighten me

[origun]

PTINs for HRB employees

As a. Block employee in Oregon, my observation is that all Block employees register for a PTIN. In fact, the company facilitates the procedure by offering to have us come into the office and a manager will use a company credit card to pay the $64. Absolutely everyone in our office who does any tax prep has a PTIN and, because I am in a state that requires passing a state test for licensing, all have passed at least one level of state certification. The company even reimbursed me for my state licensing fee last year.

I don't know if it matters, but I work for a company owned office, not a franchise.

[okie1tax]

PTIN and HRB

The setup of the Tax Professional in the software is such that you cannot prepare a return without the PTIN.

[newbie]

I would like to hear from employees of HRB and the like as to whether they are required to follow the new registered preparer rules or whether they are exempt due to where they work.

I have heard it both ways and would like to confirm which is true.

How about it all you Block, Liberty, etc employees...please enlighten me

http://blogs.forbes.com/kellyphillipserb/2011/07/13/irs-targets-100000-tax-professionals-for-noncompliance/

According to the article you posted in a different thread the IRS has exempted preparers who are 18 years old or older and both employed and supervised by a CPA, attorney, enrolled agent or other Circular 230 practitioner who actually signs the tax returns. According to the article these exemptions are meant to give H&R Block, Jackson-Hewitt, Liberty Tax and other franchise-type tax preparers an out for their employees.

IMO the CPA down the street will be doing the same thing - any unregistered tax preparers will now become "data processors" as long as they have an EA, CPA, or other practitioner with a PTIN willing to sign the tax return. It doesn't apply only to the franchises.

[Gary]

H&r

All H&R Block tax preparers have PTINs.

[taxea]

http://blogs.forbes.com/kellyphillip...noncompliance/

According to the article you posted in a different thread the IRS has exempted preparers who are 18 years old or older and both employed and supervised by a CPA, attorney, enrolled agent or other Circular 230 practitioner who actually signs the tax returns. According to the article these exemptions are meant to give H&R Block, Jackson-Hewitt, Liberty Tax and other franchise-type tax preparers an out for their employees.

IMO the CPA down the street will be doing the same thing - any unregistered tax preparers will now become "data processors" as long as they have an EA, CPA, or other practitioner with a PTIN willing to sign the tax return. It doesn't apply only to the franchises.

Newbie my question was intended to verify whether these employees are or are not subject to the new regulations which include the testing and continuing education required by the IRS. I know what the article says but I have heard otherwise and wanted to know what these employees say.
There is much discussion about how difficult the testing should be and my experience with the big box firms is that their training, at least in some areas, is totally inadequate.

[newbie]

Only preparers who are 18 years old or older and both employed and supervised by a CPA, attorney, enrolled agent or other Circular 230 practitioner who actually signs the tax returns are exempted. Doesn't matter that you work for a "Big Box Tax Prep" or little man Dan down the street.

[taxea]

to newbie

big boxes have EA's. I am trying to verify that big box employees have to follow the new regulations and are subject to the new testing as well as 15 cpe units a year. I said before that I have heard it both ways and am trying to verify which is correct.
Gary I know they have PTINS what I want to know is do they have to take the test and maintain the cpe yearly?

According to my source at the IRS the info in the article is not accurate and the employees in question do have to test and maintain the cpe yearly. Because of this I thought I would go to the source to see what their understanding is and whether they have been told that they have not been exempt.

[newbie]

taxea, you asked for my source in your original post.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-11-06.pdf

[taxea]

As a. Block employee in Oregon, my observation is that all Block employees register for a PTIN. In fact, the company facilitates the procedure by offering to have us come into the office and a manager will use a company credit card to pay the $64. Absolutely everyone in our office who does any tax prep has a PTIN and, because I am in a state that requires passing a state test for licensing, all have passed at least one level of state certification. The company even reimbursed me for my state licensing fee last year.

I don't know if it matters, but I work for a company owned office, not a franchise.

The IRS regulations for RTP state that state tests do not exempt anyone from the IRS competency exam. Have you been told differently?

Newbie:
This is what 11-6 says:
Phase 2: Pass IRS Competency Exam (begins fall 2011)
In the fall of 2011, the second phase of the paid preparer oversight program is scheduled to begin. You must pass an exam to demonstrate your competency to prepare federal tax returns. Once you pass the exam, you will become an IRS Registered Tax Return Preparer.

Exceptions — the following individuals will be exempt from testing:

Attorneys, certified public accountants, and enrolled agents who are active and in good standing with their licensing agency
Supervised preparers (those who do not sign returns but are employed by attorney or CPA firms or other recognized firms at least 80 percent owned by attorneys, CPAs, or enrolled agents, and who are directly supervised by an attorney, CPA, or enrolled agent) *
Those who prepare no Form 1040 series returns

This does not appear to apply to big box businesses. Which is, again, why I am trying to verify what the bbb employees understand to be the regulations.

Newbie do you work for one of these bbb's?

[newbie]

The IRS regulations for RTP state that state tests do not exempt anyone from the IRS competency exam. Have you been told differently?

Newbie:
This is what 11-6 says:
Phase 2: Pass IRS Competency Exam (begins fall 2011)
In the fall of 2011, the second phase of the paid preparer oversight program is scheduled to begin. You must pass an exam to demonstrate your competency to prepare federal tax returns. Once you pass the exam, you will become an IRS Registered Tax Return Preparer.

Exceptions — the following individuals will be exempt from testing:

Attorneys, certified public accountants, and enrolled agents who are active and in good standing with their licensing agency
Supervised preparers (those who do not sign returns but are employed by attorney or CPA firms or other recognized firms at least 80 percent owned by attorneys, CPAs, or enrolled agents, and who are directly supervised by an attorney, CPA, or enrolled agent) *
Those who prepare no Form 1040 series returns

This does not appear to apply to big box businesses. Which is, again, why I am trying to verify what the bbb employees understand to be the regulations.

Newbie do you work for one of these bbb's?

These "bbb" offices stand individually on their own merit so it would be a case by case basis. The "bbb" on your corner might qualify but the "bbb" on my corner does not. Or could it be to get a franchise you must meet certain qualifications in which case every office in a certain "bbb" chain will have qualifying exempt employees?

I would like to hear from employees of HRB and the like as to whether they are required to follow the new registered preparer rules or whether they are exempt due to where they work.

I have heard it both ways and would like to confirm which is true.

How about it all you Block, Liberty, etc employees...please enlighten me

Anywho - don't rely on hearsay - no one is exempt due to "where they work", but only if they work for a qualifying firm with a supervisor willing to sign the prepared return.

[origun]

CPEs for BBB

I work for HRB which has more stringent requirements for CPEs than the new federal rules. For years we have been required to have 24 hours of CPEs for rehire although almost everyone I know has had many more than that. Those much include ethics and update hours.

[WhiteOleander]

I would like to hear from employees of HRB and the like as to whether they are required to follow the new registered preparer rules or whether they are exempt due to where they work.

I have heard it both ways and would like to confirm which is true.

How about it all you Block, Liberty, etc employees...please enlighten me

Why would you want to hear from Block employees? In an earlier thread you stated that you were "eminently more qualified" than those preparers.

I've worked for Block since 1995. I became an EA in 1998. I have to have at least 30 hrs of CPE each year to continue working there. But based on your evaluation, I couldn't possibly give you any assisstance.

[Gary]

Test

Yes, all H&R Block tax preparers (except EAs, CPAs and lawyers) will have to take the IRS test.

[MLINDER42]

Ptin's

I worked for HRB corporate offices for 2 years I can not see how every individual preparer will
not have to pass the test themselves.They do not pay anyone enough to check and sign other peoples returns.I am an EA and run a large independent tax office I have discussed with the owner what we will do if a preparer does not pass or we do not have enough preparers that do pass.We have not made a decision.