Dependent Child

[MLINDER42]

Parents have taken adult daughter as dependent for years. 2010 marries both now live with parents.Husband files MFS can the parents still take daughter as dependent.they totally support daughter including large medical bills?

[spanel]

The rule is

You cannot claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent unless that joint return is only a claim for refund and there would be no tax liablilty for either spouse on separate returns.


chris

[JG EA]

No, I disagree. You can take a married person as a dependent. You just cannot take someone who files jointly.

[dtlee]

I think I agree with both of the above posts (not sure of the specific point of disagreement). My interpretation of the rule is:

If the individual is married, the taxpayer cannot claim that individual as a dependent if he or she files a joint return unless the return is filed only for refund of all taxes paid (with no refundable credits) and no tax liability would have existed for either spouse had they filed separate returns.

This implies that you can claim someone who does file separately.

[JG EA]

I think I agree with both of the above posts (not sure of the specific point of disagreement). My interpretation of the rule is:

If the individual is married, the taxpayer cannot claim that individual as a dependent if he or she files a joint return unless the return is filed only for refund of all taxes paid (with no refundable credits) and no tax liability would have existed for either spouse had they filed separate returns.

This implies that you can claim someone who does file separately.

Yes, you are right - no point of disagreement. I have a hard time reading I guess.

Thanks for your undisagreement.

[spanel]

The rule is

You cannot claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent unless that joint return is only a claim for refund and there would be no tax liablilty for either spouse on separate returns.

This i believe is the exact wording from the IRS.

[Jesse]

The rule is

You cannot claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent unless that joint return is only a claim for refund and there would be no tax liablilty for either spouse on separate returns.


chris

"You cannot claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent" - but if her husband files MFS and she does not file she is a married person who did NOT file a joint return.

[spanel]

"You cannot claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent" - but if her husband files MFS and she does not file she is a married person who did NOT file a joint return.

Correct.. so unto the last part of that statement.... "and there would be no tax liablilty for either spouse on separate returns."

[erchess]

Mfs

Chris I think what the others are arguing is that if a married couple files separately then when we consider whether one of them can be a dependent the fact that they are married and the tax situation of their spouse is irrelevant. So, getting back to original post, the "dependent?" daughter could be Melinda Gates. If she and Bill file separately then Bill's MFS return is not relevant to the question of whether Melinda's parents may claim her as a dependent. You would naturally still have the questions of how much income Melinda had and of her support and all the other dependency tests. IOW the last part of the statement you alluded to only applies to a married couple that actually filed a joint return.

MMM and don't forget that in a community property state as best I understand it each taxpayer gets half of his or her own income and half of the income of the spouse. I rarely think about that because I have never practiced in a community property state.

[spanel]

Chris I think what the others are arguing is that if a married couple files separately then when we consider whether one of them can be a dependent the fact that they are married and the tax situation of their spouse is irrelevant. So, getting back to original post, the "dependent?" daughter could be Melinda Gates. If she and Bill file separately then Bill's MFS return is not relevant to the question of whether Melinda's parents may claim her as a dependent. You would naturally still have the questions of how much income Melinda had and of her support and all the other dependency tests. IOW the last part of the statement you alluded to only applies to a married couple that actually filed a joint return.

MMM and don't forget that in a community property state as best I understand it each taxpayer gets half of his or her own income and half of the income of the spouse. I rarely think about that because I have never practiced in a community property state.

Thats not what the pub reads... "and there would be no tax liablilty for EITHER spouse on separate returns."

So If Bill has tax liability on his separate return.. no you cannot claim Melinda.

Chris

[dtlee]

It is also referred to as the "joint return" test test in the pubications. The intent is to deny allowing an individual to reduce their tax liability via a joint return while simultaneously being able to be claimed as a dependent.

Hence, there is no special rule for claiming or not claiming anyone who files a separate return, but there is a rule that says that you cannot claim someone who files jointly except in the scenarios I mentioned in my earlier post. The publications are trying to state the exceptions to this more general rule from IRS Code §152(b)(2) where it says:

Married dependents.
An individual shall not be treated as a dependent of a taxpayer under subsection (a) [i.e., as a Qualifying Child or Qualifying Relative] if such individual has made a joint return with the individual's spouse under section 6013 for the taxable year beginning in the calendar year in which the taxable year of the taxpayer begins.

I added the notation in [brackets] above.

[MLINDER42]

Dependent Chikd

The husband pays none of the support for his wife my clients daughter.They live rent free he buys none of the groceries spends all his earnings on himself.Has large child support and large car loan.

[JG EA]

To reiterate...

As dtee said.
Of course the other rules apply for claiming a dependent. But that is not what we are discussing here. If MFS then the "joint return" rule does not apply at all. (As dtee said.)

[FEDUKE404]

Did I miss something?

"Parents have taken adult daughter as dependent for years."

How old is this daughter and how much (if any?) income does she receive????

And, in a related topic, how much income does the new husband make?

FE

[Gary2]

Thats not what the pub reads... "and there would be no tax liablilty for EITHER spouse on separate returns."

So If Bill has tax liability on his separate return.. no you cannot claim Melinda.

For some reason, many people, including many experienced preparers, latch onto the last part of the rule, and lose track of how the rule begins and misinterpret it.

So is there a better way to phrase it that's just as concise? Or ask yourself, how would you phrase it to get the desired meaning, i.e. they always pass the test if they file separately, regardless of any tax liability (short of adding a sentence that's as pedantic as that)?