Efile or not?

[Gary2]

I am accepting of the fact that some people only learn by ignoring all advice, even that based on experience, and waste the time finding out for themselves that the advice was accurate.

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, just asking for a clarification. I get that there are two separate computer processes, and that an amendment won't change the data already in the e-file rejection system. I'm just trying to understand if you're saying that an original paper return also won't ever get into the e-file rejection system.

[MAJ]

Thank you for the fine reading.. Appreciated..

Hey - This was a fun thread to read... I aprpeciated the humor and hopefully no one took it to personal. I mean Seriously - It's take a big person to know when they've been kicked hard enough -- BB even threw in the towel and said - Look where I'm from... Did we all scan the screen at that moment going - Where is he from?? Arkansas? Are you serious..

No wonder he's nnot big on E-File...
Indoor plumbing is still optional....
Internet was banned because they thought it had sexual connotations.
GMail was believed to be pornographic mail.

It's not easy living there - Someone has to do it...

Thank god for the Clintons!!

[taxea]

I am accepting of the fact that some people only learn by ignoring all advice, even that based on experience, and waste the time finding out for themselves that the advice was accurate.
Have at it.

[Gary2]

What it depends on is which return hits the IRS computer first. If the Efiled return gets into the computer for a match before the manually filed return then the Efiled return is more likely to get the dependent no matter how much earlier, by post-mark, the other return was sent/filed.

I chose those dates deliberately to avoid that scenario. Unless things are very broken, a paper return in January will be in some computer system before an e-file in August, otherwise the IRS will be paying interest on that January refund.

I'm asking not whether the e-file return will ultimately go through, but whether or not it will get an initial acceptance. If the paper returns only get into the main processing computers, but not into the database used for the e-file acceptance, then the e-file return will be marked accepted by the IRS (in the e-file sense only), and it will take subsequent processing for the IRS to deal with the duplicate dependents.

[FEDUKE404]

Further...

I had a client who suddenly was facing some "issues" as to claiming a dependent who, by all rational interpretations, could legitimately be claimed.

BUT another person was apparently rocking the boat and threatening to claim the same person as a dependent.

Within 24 hours we had efiled a return, which was accepted (and refunds have now been received). While there may well be some forthcoming IRS letters if the other person tried to efile (FAIL!) or paper filed claiming the dependent, at least the initial "race" was won.

Taxea did bring up a valid point re a paper-filed return, but it obviously takes some amount of time for such to make it into that great IRS computer. OTOH, going the efile route quickly closes the door to others. My GUESS is that door would be closed to future efiled and/or (processed) paper returns.

FE

[Black Bart]

Okay,

Just wanted you to know that I dug deeeeeeep into the bowels of the IRS for the answer...didn't just talk to the usual "suspects" that we all deal with day to day...

Thanks....

[taxea]

Does this mean that if person A mails a paper return, say on January 5 (before e-file is up), claiming a dependent, and person B e-files much later, say August 1, claiming the same dependent, then B's return will be accepted for e-filing, with a followup much later concerning the duplicate dependent?

In other words, the e-file acceptance checks never check for duplicate SSNs that weren't through the e-file system?

What it depends on is which return hits the IRS computer first. If the Efiled return gets into the computer for a match before the manually filed return then the Efiled return is more likely to get the dependent no matter how much earlier, by post-mark, the other return was sent/filed.

[taxea]

Thanks, but I've already read it -- I just think there's a possibility that it may NOT reject after the 1040X gets posted. I've known IRS to be inconsistent about lots of things. Cut me a little slack, tea -- I gave you credit for bein' smart (after all, you know enough to live in paradise and look where I'm at ).

Just wanted you to know that I dug deeeeeeep into the bowels of the IRS for the answer...didn't just talk to the usual "suspects" that we all deal with day to day...

[taxea]

Well, since you've got to wait several weeks either way for the 1040X to get processed, I think I'd just give the efile a shot afterwards anyway. The worst that can happen is you hit "send" and it gets rejected again; if not you've saved the paperwork and dealing with the client again.

This is not to say that taxea's source about the IRS protocol on this is wrong -- she sounds like she's more efilingly knowledgeable than I, but I've had numerous IRS reps tell me I can't do something and then talk to another who has no problem at all with it (you just have to call and talk to them about these things). As to the anticipated letter I don't see any need to respond -- if the amended return goes through then the letter's moot.

BB Just so you know... I got the info directly from the Efile/E-Serv division so I trust its accuarcy

[Gary2]

Only one return per SSN is going to post on IRS's e-filing system. The amended return will post in the IRS computer system for accepted returns but never pass through e-filing. Think about it -- the amendment is paper-filed and not e-filed so changes nothing in the e-filing system. You will have no better luck trying to e-file a return again than you had the first time. (Unless you file without that SSN and later paper-file an amendment, but if you're going to all that trouble just paper-file the return in the first place.)

Does this mean that if person A mails a paper return, say on January 5 (before e-file is up), claiming a dependent, and person B e-files much later, say August 1, claiming the same dependent, then B's return will be accepted for e-filing, with a followup much later concerning the duplicate dependent?

In other words, the e-file acceptance checks never check for duplicate SSNs that weren't through the e-file system?

[Lion]

Warmth

Aw Bart, here's some warm thoughts sent your way. In fact, take today's humidity with the heat, and our rain, too!

We just thought we had to hammer harder to get through your hard head. We didn't mean to imply that we don't like your hard head. We like you just the way you are.

[Black Bart]

I yield.

Only one return per SSN is going to post on IRS's e-filing system. The amended return will post in the IRS computer system for accepted returns but never pass through e-filing. Think about it -- the amendment is paper-filed and not e-filed so changes nothing in the e-filing system. You will have no better luck trying to e-file a return again than you had the first time. (Unless you file without that SSN and later paper-file an amendment, but if you're going to all that trouble just paper-file the return in the first place.)

Okay, what you're sayin' makes sense. And I think you're saying that once a return's been accepted, then that's that for efile -- they will not change it. And it follows that's the reason we can't efile a 1040X -- they won't handle a return twice. I was thinking about how I had changed some dependents' names/numbers/etc. with efile, but that was before the return had been accepted (IRS had rejected it and asked for corrections).

Note to KB: Please strike my previous testimony; disregard its content and give no weight to its import.

Gosh, is it just me or is gettin' quite chilly around here? I get the distinct feeling there's a touch of hostility and very low tolerance for non-conformist, non-dogma heresy (AKA "hogwash") in this neighborhood lately. Of course it could be 'cause I was simply wrong but still...there's a definite crispness in the air of late.

[Lion]

Only Once

Only one return per SSN is going to post on IRS's e-filing system. The amended return will post in the IRS computer system for accepted returns but never pass through e-filing. Think about it -- the amendment is paper-filed and not e-filed so changes nothing in the e-filing system. You will have no better luck trying to e-file a return again than you had the first time. (Unless you file without that SSN and later paper-file an amendment, but if you're going to all that trouble just paper-file the return in the first place.)

[Black Bart]

Drat! Reprimanded again.

Bart's wrong...

Aww, is that nice? I know I have been, may be now, and will be again, but still....isn't there just a teenie-weenie, little-bitty chance it might/could go through? Say "maybe" and I promise to go along peaceably next time you want to tar and feather corporate slackers, me included .

...(and an efile newbie)...

Now, now -- like taxea says, you gotta re-read my posts. I never said I don't efile (EF since 2000) -- I said I don't like to efile. I've haven't had a similar case but....since there's no rush, what's the harm in giving efile a second shot? I find you can scrounge lotsa scraps of knowledge about what's possible by just doin' the opposite of what the Boogerman tells you to.

[Black Bart]

Sendin' me back to primer school...

Well, since you've got to wait several weeks either way for the 1040X to get processed, I think I'd just give the efile a shot afterwards anyway. The worst that can happen is you hit "send" and it gets rejected again; if not you've saved the paperwork and dealing with the client again.

This is not to say that taxea's source about the IRS protocol on this is wrong -- she sounds like she's more efilingly knowledgeable than I, but I've had numerous IRS reps tell me I can't do something and then talk to another who has no problem at all with it (you just have to call and talk to them about these things). As to the anticipated letter I don't see any need to respond -- if the amended return goes through then the letter's moot.

reread my post....it is going to reject no matter how long you wait to efile it.

Thanks, but I've already read it -- I just think there's a possibility that it may NOT reject after the 1040X gets posted. I've known IRS to be inconsistent about lots of things. Cut me a little slack, tea -- I gave you credit for bein' smart (after all, you know enough to live in paradise and look where I'm at ).