Form 1310? Death of Child

[Hoosier]

17 year old child of client died in 2010. Child had a small amount W2 with some withholding and is entitled to a federal refund. Looks like I should attach form 1310 to the tax return with the mother's name as the person claiming refund. I'm not sure if I can file this electronically? Can the refund be direct deposited to the mother's account? Any thoughts, ideas, advice, etc.? This topic has probably been discussed here before so I apologize in advance for bringing it up again.

[Koss]

Form 1310

Form 1310 can be filed electronically, but I would not recommend direct deposit.

If the name and SSN on the bank account do not match the name and SSN on the tax return, the bank is likely to reject the direct deposit.

BMK

[Gretel]

Agree, I just filed such a return electronically. Make sure you have a physical address for the recipient of the check and no PO box.

[FEDUKE404]

Interesting

My software provider has told me twice that an electronic return cannot be filed for any deceased person (exception = surviving spouse) regardless of whether there is a refund (perhaps Form 1310) or a balance due. Part of the issue is the "fine print" for when a Form 1310 is actually required in the first place.....

Other question is whether a properly executed tax return (paper return, signed by "personal representative") can have a federal refund direct-deposited or instead must wait for a paper check. Yeah, I've heard both answers to that question also......

Anyone who has direct first-hand knowledge of efile processing of returns for deceased persons and/or payments made into an estate bank account is welcome to chime in!

FE

[David1980]

There are situations where a 1310 can't be efiled, a look through Pub 1346 reject codes would show that. However, the very fact there are reject codes for a 1310 indicates that yes, it can be efiled (it's also in the list of accepted forms for efile.)

A couple of the more common "can't efile 1310" situations arise from rejects 1005 and 1016.

1005 o Form 1310 – When Person Other Than A or B Claiming Decedent Refund
(SEQ 0190) equals "X", then all of the following fields must also
equal "X": Did Decedent Leave a Will "YES" Box (SEQ 0210) or Did
Decedent Leave a Will "NO" Box (SEQ 0220), Court Appointed Personal
Rep "NO" Box (SEQ 0240), Personal Rep will be Appointed "NO" Box
(SEQ 0260) and Refund Paid out According to State Laws "YES" Box
(SEQ 0270).

1016 o Form 1040/1040A/104EZ - When Filing Status Code (SEQ 0130) is not
equal to "2" and the Primary Date of Death (SEQ 0020) and the Refund
(SEQ 1270) are significant, then Form 1310 must be present and Person
other than A or B Claiming Decedent Refund (SEQ 0190) must be
significant.

1016 indicates that when not MFJ, that box C must be marked in part 1 of 1310. So if there is a court appointed or certified personal representative, it can't be efiled.

1005 indicates that if a court appointed personal rep will be appointed, that you can't efile.

[Koss]

Direct Deposit (NOT)

I don't have any recent experience with this type of return, but it seems to me that direct deposit is just plain unlikely to work. As I noted in my earlier post, the problem is that when it comes to direct deposit of a check from the US Treasury, the bank is likely to refuse the transaction if the SSN associated with the deposit does not match the SSN on the bank account.

At a few banks here and there, a deposit of this type might slip through the cracks, but I think it is unlikely.

If someone says they successfully pulled it off, then either it's one of those rare cases where the bank just "didn't catch it," or...

I could see a direct deposit going through if...

The person filing the return on their behalf provides their bank account RTN and DAN and that account is a joint account with the deceased taxpayer. But even here, I suspect that it would only work if the bank has not yet been informed that the taxpayer is deceased. Once the bank knows about this, they will remove that person's name and SSN from the account (assuming the ownership is joint tenants with right of survivorship, i.e., the money in the account passes directly to the other account holder).

FEDUKE404 mentioned having the refund sent by direct deposit to an account in the name of the estate. Good luck with that. I just don't think it will work, again because the SSN doesn't match (a true estate would have an EIN but no SSN).

Now, if the decedent had a living trust, and a bank account in the name of the living trust, then I could see that happening, because a living trust is a grantor trust that can use the grantor's SSN. But it shouldn't work if everyone is playing by the rules, because, again, once the person is dead, the living trust becomes irrevocable, and then it needs an EIN. So that would only work if the bank did not know that the person was deceased, or did not yet have the new EIN for the living trust. I've never actually worked on a case like that. But when a living trust becomes irrevocable, you've got a new entity, and it now has to file a 1041. The bank would probably have to close the account that had been opened by the living trust, and open a new account, with a new account number, and the appropriate EIN. So the direct deposit would only work if you delayed notifiying the bank. Well, not you, but the trustee, I guess. But as the tax pro preparing the decedent's return, I'm not sure I would want to fill in an account number for direct deposit if I had knowledge that the bank account in question should be defunct...

BMK

[AJsTax]

I have been

unable to file several 1310s for deceased taxpayer without a spouse. A personal representative on the 1310 will not efile. A request for refund on a 1040 for a deceased taxpayer with a personal representative requesting the refund will not efile without a 1310. Even though the instructions for the 1310 state not to file one with a original 1040. So I have been filling the the form to explain why and sending them in paper.

Four or five in the last three weeks. I sure wish some of these would show up in February instead of the middle of March.

[David1980]

unable to file several 1310s for deceased taxpayer without a spouse. A personal representative on the 1310 will not efile. A request for refund on a 1040 for a deceased taxpayer with a personal representative requesting the refund will not efile without a 1310. Even though the instructions for the 1310 state not to file one with a original 1040. So I have been filling the the form to explain why and sending them in paper.

Four or five in the last three weeks. I sure wish some of these would show up in February instead of the middle of March.

A certified personal representative claiming the refund can't be efiled, true. That's reject 1016.

However, I'm curious about the "Even though the instructions for the 1310 state not to file one with a original 1040." statement - is that a typo?

Under who must file, it says this:

"
● You are a personal representative (defined on this page)
filing an original Form 1040, Form 1040A, Form 1040EZ, or
Form 1040NR for the decedent and a court certificate
showing your appointment is attached to the return"

[FEDUKE404]

Update

unable to file several 1310s for deceased taxpayer without a spouse. A personal representative on the 1310 will not efile. A request for refund on a 1040 for a deceased taxpayer with a personal representative requesting the refund will not efile without a 1310. Even though the instructions for the 1310 state not to file one with a original 1040. So I have been filling the the form to explain why and sending them in paper.

Four or five in the last three weeks. I sure wish some of these would show up in February instead of the middle of March.

The bulk of my "deceased" returns this season have involved a personal representative, which I have been told will not efile fly. (Software says NO GO as soon as I try to start the efile sequence.....) I have efiled returns with a deceased/surviving spouse (no 1310 is required in the first place!) and have been successful.

As for the very well composed comments by Koss, the returns I have in that area (single decedent/personal rep/NO 1310/refund) I've just told them to accept the deposit if it shows up, otherwise the check is (hopefully) in the mail. So far as I know the receiving bank accounts show "Estate of..." as well as name of personal rep.

There have been previous comments on these boards about direct-deposit refunds going into just about anybody's bank account.....same surprised me!!!.....so I really have no idea what safeguards the IRS/banks now use to prevent an "incorrect" deposit.

Oh well - back to the grindstone - at least we're down to the short rows for this season.

FE

[FEDUKE404]

Form 1310 not always needed in the first place

A certified personal representative claiming the refund can't be efiled, true. That's reject 1016.

However, I'm curious about the "Even though the instructions for the 1310 state not to file one with a original 1040." statement - is that a typo?

Under who must file, it says this:

"
● You are a personal representative (defined on this page)
filing an original Form 1040, Form 1040A, Form 1040EZ, or
Form 1040NR for the decedent and a court certificate
showing your appointment is attached to the return"

Your comments support what I have run into......many of the Forms 1310 are **NOT** required in the first place. You have to read V-E-R-Y carefully the wording of the questions in Part I ("reissuance" or "court-appointed" or "other than...") of the form.

I have several paper-filed returns out there (refunds/no Form 1310/personal representative signed returns + attached letters testamentary) and based upon my information those should process without problems. Whether the refunds go the direct-deposit route is still unknown....

FWIW - I think the persons at the IRS who wrote the 1310 rules are likely of the same ilk as those who came up with the "helpful" Form 1098-T guidelines....

FE

[AJsTax]

Oh well - back to the grindstone - at least we're down to the short rows for this season.

FE

Yep, but it is getting to muddy around here to finish even the short rows!! ;-)

[RitaB]

I was just thinking

Form 1310 can be filed electronically, but I would not recommend direct deposit.

If the name and SSN on the bank account do not match the name and SSN on the tax return, the bank is likely to reject the direct deposit.

BMK

I was just thinking about this, and have a return with a Form 1310 right now (mother for deceased adult son). If the CHECK is issued in the name of the person shown on the Form 1310, wouldn't it be safe to ask for a direct deposit to the person's (on the 1310) account, too?

It is not that big a deal to this client, but I thought I'd fill out the direct deposit info since I just used it on her own return. What do you think?

[Brian EA]

Cannot file electronically because the child died in 2010.

[David1980]

Cannot file electronically because the child died in 2010.

Thread is > 1 year old.

[RitaB]

Oops

Cannot file electronically because the child died in 2010.

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the dates, I was just searching and found this thread.

The deceased I am talking about passed away in March 2011. I am doing the return now. I was curious about the direct deposit issue. Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

BTW, I still think the 90's were ten years ago.