Off-topic: Deleted Outlook emails, etc

[DTS]

I've been working a little each morning deleting old, worthless emails and Word documents. Since 2000, that amounts to thousands. Question, where do these deleted items go (not the recycle bin) and is there a need to delete them off the hard drive and how is that done? Seems this would allow some added space and speed.

Thank you.

[Koss]

Deletion

Word documents that are stored in a "regular" folder should in fact go to your recycle bin, unless you have a special configuration on your PC.

You are correct that deleting messages from Outlook does not send them to the recycle bin.

Either way, the answer is the same.

When you delete a file from a directory on your computer, whether that directory is a "regular" folder such the "My Documents" folder in Windows XP, or some other directory, such as folder that functions as the inbox in MS Outlook...

It isn't really deleted. Even if you empty the recycle bin.

The ordinary process of deleting a file does not delete the file itself. It only removes the directory path, so that it is no longer accessible, visible, or available to an ordinary user of the computer. Deleting the file removes the directory path, or "address" of the file, and it makes the space where the file is stored available for storage of some other file. Over time, as you store new documents, the "deleted" file that wasn't really deleted will be overwritten by a new file that you have saved.

Until it is overwritten, the file has not really been deleted, and it can be recovered using data recovery software.

So part of the answer to your question is that when you delete files, it doesn't completely delete them, but it does free up the space. However, as deleted files build up and accumulate, they are still occupying space, even though the space has become available to be overwritten with new files. And this can in fact slow down your PC. It certainly has the effect of making file storage less efficient. It can slow the performance of the hard drive, in that it causes the PC to take more time to save and retrieve files.

The answer to this problem is defragmentation. In Windows XP, it's a function that is found in "Computer Management," in the Control Panel, under Administrative Tools.

Defragging a hard drive can take a few hours. So do it at night, before you go to bed.

Crashes and data loss during a defrag are very rare, but for the love of God, make sure you have backed up anything important before you do it.

Defragmentation will help improve file storage efficiency, and in the process, it may have the effect of really erasing the files that you have deleted.

But technically, that's not what defragmentation is meant to do. Defragmentation re-organizes and "compacts" the file storage system, so that stored files are contiguous, and free space is contiguous. It does make things more efficient. It does not necessarily cause permanent erasure of deleted files.

The only way to be absolutely certain that files are permanently erased is to use a deletion utility. And even those, in my opinion, are not a sure thing unless you wipe the entire disk.

If you're like most people, you probably don't have much to hide. But if you're trying to get rid of evidence, or delete your porn collection, or donate a PC to a nonprofit, and the PC once had your client tax files on it... You better wipe the disk, using a commercial-grade application, that wipes it using DoD (Department of Defense) standards.

Probably waaaaaay more than you wanted to know...

BMK

[DTS]

Burton

Thank you for your considerable explanation. And no, it was not more than I wanted to know. I appreciate the time you took explaining this to me. I do defrag on a regular weekly interval. I wish there was an easy way of deleting these files and not having to wait for them to be overridden.

Anyway, thank you once again.

Dennis

[oceanlovin'ea]

Very educational

Thanks Burton. I for one found this very educational and stuff I kind of knew but didn'r really know for sure how it worked.

I wondered that not long ago. I was deleting emails and realized they didn't go in the recycle bin and wondered where there were.

Linda, EA

[travis bickle]

There is an easy way

Thank you for your considerable explanation. And no, it was not more than I wanted to know. I appreciate the time you took explaining this to me. I do defrag on a regular weekly interval. I wish there was an easy way of deleting these files and not having to wait for them to be overridden.

Anyway, thank you once again.

Dennis

There is a free deletion utility available called . . . ERASER (what else?)

Go to this website http://eraser.heidi.ie/, do a little reading and download it.

I have been using this for quite some time with absolutely no problems.

There is a short CNET review at this website
http://download.cnet.com/Eraser/3000...-10231814.html - just to let you know that it is a valid AND tested utility.

You can use Gutman or DoD standards to do your erasures.

[DTS]

...You can use Gutman or DoD standards to do your erasures.

Travis,

Sorry I'm just getting back to the board. I've been in hiding!

Thanks for the link. I will check them out. One dumb question, what are Gutman or DoD standards?

Thanks.

[travis bickle]

They are

Travis,

Sorry I'm just getting back to the board. I've been in hiding!

Thanks for the link. I will check them out. One dumb question, what are Gutman or DoD standards?

Thanks.

standards published by the respective sponsors.

For example, IF I remember correctly, DoD standard is: erase 7 times, overwrite the area once with all 1's and then overwrite once with all 0's.

Don't know what Gutmann standards are because I did not read his paper (he is some scientist that wrote a relatively recent paper on the topic). Best I recall though is that it involves 35 overwrite cycles.

Basically, either of these are "thorough scrubbers" of your data. The military routinely uses DoD standard (duh .. of course) on classified material, so in essence if it "destroys" classified material, it is gone.

[FEDUKE404]

Clarification

In most instances (I actually use Mozilla software, including Thunderbird for emails) when you delete an email message or similar you are not deleting "a file" such as you would for that MS Word document to your attorney.

Generally there is ONE file (think "Inbox" or "Client emails" or "Tax") where all of the individual, associated emails reside within a subdirectory. When you delete any email message, you really are (so far as the hard drive recognizes) not deleting anything, but rather modifying an existing much larger file.

Depending on the size/availability of space on your hard drive, you could in theory run into a situation where any given email may exist in literally hundreds of files rattling around on your computer. Imagine a "Sent" file that contains a message created Jan 1st. You send another email message every day of January, each time automatically updating/increasing the entire Sent file as you go. Then you would perhaps have 31 copies (current and recent) of the same email. And that is with low usage.

This is from Thunderbird and somewhat further explains things: "When you delete a message, it doesn't really get deleted from the folder. It gets marked as deleted. Thunderbird sees that marking, and knows not to display it. Compacting folders will command Thunderbird to remove all messages marked as deleted, in each folder of the currently selected account. This process removes extra space within the mail file folders, and can recover large chunks of hard drive space."

As noted, the "compacting" of the folder will essentially permanently delete the message from within the folder as well as likely clear up some hard drive space.

Once again, since the question was about emails, be sure you understand the difference in how they are handled versus how a true data/individual file such as "Joe2010Tax.xyz" is managed.

Are you now even more confused??

FE

[DTS]

...Once again, since the question was about emails, be sure you understand the difference in how they are handled versus how a true data/individual file such as "Joe2010Tax.xyz" is managed.

Are you now even more confused??

FE

Yes I am! I guess this is no time to be messing with this stuff. It can wait a month or so.

FE, thank you for further explaining this.

[FEDUKE404]

Dirt simple explanation for now

Yes I am! I guess this is no time to be messing with this stuff. It can wait a month or so.

FE, thank you for further explaining this.

An email message is not a file (subject to the usual "how do I permanently delete a file?" questions) but rather is only a very small part of a much larger file which is maintained on your hard drive by your email program of choice (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.)

FE