Education Credit

[S T]

T/p son attended college Fall 2006, All of 2007, and graduated 2008 with AA degree.
Year 2006 and 2007 we used the Hope Credit, 2008 was Tuition and Fees

Fall of 2010 son goes back to College for Law Enforcement

Is he eligible for the AOC for 2010?

Thanks,

Sandy

[Super Mom]

I would say yes, because the total years for hope and american op. would only be 3 and can take for 4. Also, an associates is a 2 year degree, so he hasn't technically completed 4 years. I'm interested to see what others have to say on this!

[Gretel]

Yes, I would say he qualifies. Never has completed 4 years of college.

[S T]

AOC Expenses

Thanks Gretel and Super Mom, so will qualify for the AOC Tuition.

AOC expenses far outway the Tuition.

Now a question about the AOC expenses
This is a Law Enforcement Class graduating for the Police Academy, the expenses required by the class include - it is through the local college.

books and classroom materials, gun and associated ammo, police uniform and associated expenses, then there is uniform cleaning, and several meals.

I am thinking that not all of the expenses would be included, even though they were required? Any thoughts on this and what can be included for the AOC expenses?

Sandy

[travis bickle]

I would think

Thanks Gretel and Super Mom, so will qualify for the AOC Tuition.

AOC expenses far outway the Tuition.

Now a question about the AOC expenses
This is a Law Enforcement Class graduating for the Police Academy, the expenses required by the class include - it is through the local college.

books and classroom materials, gun and associated ammo, police uniform and associated expenses, then there is uniform cleaning, and several meals.

I am thinking that not all of the expenses would be included, even though they were required? Any thoughts on this and what can be included for the AOC expenses?

Sandy

that only a very minimal amount of the expenses you describe would NOT be allowed.

ALL of this individual's course supplies are required, ergo, they are allowed on AOC.

I am not too sure about the uniform maintenance expense [I am really tired now] but if "special clothing" is required, one could argue that that "special clothing" must be maintained. The meals? I am not sure about this. UNLESS he is actually REQUIRED to purchase meals at a specific facility [or, perhaps, he is REQUIRED to participate in a field trip to train/practice on a required pistol course, and has to purchase meals there], I do not see how meals can be expensed. In addition, I would not hesitate to expense such items as trigger guards/locks, strong boxes for storage of weapons, etc.

[Gretel]

I agree. If the only criteria is "required by the course", then everything should be counted as expense. My first gut feeling was, no way the meals would qualify, but then they could be special meals too, good nutrition maybe?

Maybe this is rather a battle the IRS has to fight with the originator of the courses? Seems like they can do anything they want.

I never dreamed they so many things can be included.

[travis bickle]

Don't go the "good nutrition" route

I agree. If the only criteria is "required by the course", then everything should be counted as expense. My first gut feeling was, no way the meals would qualify, but then they could be special meals too, good nutrition maybe?

Maybe this is rather a battle the IRS has to fight with the originator of the courses? Seems like they can do anything they want.

I never dreamed they so many things can be included.

The service has already ruled that "special nutrition" items are NOT a tax deductible issue UNLESS they are [exotic] items actually prescribed due to a medical condition (Lorenzo's Oil comes to mind).

And, no, unfortunately I do not have a cite, I merely remember it from researching that topic Y-E-A-R-S ago.

And, I really do not think there is a field course REQUIRING the participants to eat in their facility -- that would mean no one could brown bag? Kind of doubt that.

However, along the lines of "uniform maintenance" WHY NOT push it and expense all the Brasso the guy has to buy to polish his gear? HAHAHAHA.

[S T]

Thanks again

Thanks Gretel and Travis,
I am just concerned as these expenses are over $ 3,500 - Tuition paid was the smallest amount of all of this.
Minimal amount for the Meals - so not concerned, don't think I will include meals or "laundry of uniforms" but will probably use the other items.

Sandy

[travis bickle]

I am going to say something

Thanks Gretel and Travis,
I am just concerned as these expenses are over $ 3,500 - Tuition paid was the smallest amount of all of this.
Minimal amount for the Meals - so not concerned, don't think I will include meals or "laundry of uniforms" but will probably use the other items.

Sandy

that I KNOW you have already considered.

Don't forget to include such esoteric items as: ear protectors; ballistic glasses; ballistic gloves; all the leather gear [handcuff cases, ammo pouches, etc]; and any special safety shoes.

If you are going to the range - or pursing a career as a peace officer - you NEED those items (not even going to bother to tell you to not forget kevlar or ceramic items).

[S T]

Thanks Travis

All of those items you mention are on the list - I did ask for a detailed spreadsheet of costs for this one.

I am just not comfortable with the meals on ride-a-longs, the uniform cleaning, a Turkey Trot Charity Run and a Santa Ana Charity Run, that was Mandatory Participation

By the way do you know what "Runners High" is the cost $ 101.51 ?

So out of the total cost of $ 3,571 - $ 718 was Tuition, have about $ 275 questionable Registration expenses such as Pre Reg, parking permit, fingerprint scan and psych Eval, and then $ 92 in Laundry for Uniforms, $ 75 in the Charity Runs, $ 20 on the meals Ride-along

The balance of approx $ 2391 would be purchasing required uniform, books/supplies, gun, holster, and ammo, hancuffs, under armour, etc.

Thoughts,

Sandy

[S T]

This is interesting

From another forum I just came across a post that appears to be an IRS request "Form 886-H-AOC - Supporting Documents to Prove American Opportunity Credit" It does appear to be an IRS Document Request

Within the request - "If you received payments for educational expenses, you will need to provide any or all of the following documents that apply. One of the items listed is
"Form 1098-T, an amount must be entered in Box 1 showing (Payments received for qualified tuition and related expenses)"

Well what are going to do for that - As posted on another thread, I don't think any of us have seen a 1098T for tax year 2010, that has Box 1 completed. I have only seen Box 2 and Box 5 this year.

Doesn't this apply to the Student Loans, as payments being received for education expenses, as well as those 529 plans and other Ed Plans on 1099Q?

S

[travis bickle]

Interesting items here

All of those items you mention are on the list - I did ask for a detailed spreadsheet of costs for this one.

I am just not comfortable with the meals on ride-a-longs, the uniform cleaning, a Turkey Trot Charity Run and a Santa Ana Charity Run, that was Mandatory Participation

By the way do you know what "Runners High" is the cost $ 101.51 ?

So out of the total cost of $ 3,571 - $ 718 was Tuition, have about $ 275 questionable Registration expenses such as Pre Reg, parking permit, fingerprint scan and psych Eval, and then $ 92 in Laundry for Uniforms, $ 75 in the Charity Runs, $ 20 on the meals Ride-along

The balance of approx $ 2391 would be purchasing required uniform, books/supplies, gun, holster, and ammo, hancuffs, under armour, etc.

Thoughts,

Sandy

we all know that the service allows "uniform maintenance" on Sch A (subject to the 2% threshold), so why not as an education expense? In other words, the IRS has validated the concept of uniform maintenance when properly reported, ergo, for an employee that would be listing it on Sch A, whereas for a student it would seem to go on their 8863 as a qualified expense. Of course we all also know that just because it makes sense to me, that that is not necessarily a justification for claiming it. LOL.

Student parking permits are definitely allowed. Fingerprinting, psych eval would both be allowed since they are required to be allowed to participate in the program.

"Runners High" is his running shoe - sorry Charlie, no to this. Meals? I concur with you on saying no; cannot think of any situation where it would be allowed. Mandatory Charity Runs??? NO.

Hope my ruminations help. I am glad you posted this. It served to educate me to aggressively pursue ALL possible expenses for my clients.

PS - thanks for your other post pointing out the Form 886-H-AOC. I will keep a copy so that I can advise my clients what MAY happen if they insist on submitting a questionable expense.

[Gretel]

I 2nd Travis "Thank you" for this post and form 886-h-AOC. I also learned a lot from this.

[Davc]

Do you have a cite for "Student parking permits"? I've never heard of a college that requires a student to even have a car as a condition of attendance.