8879 Signage

[BOB W]

The client is allowed to be as insecure with their information as they wish. Encrypted e-mail is the smarter way to go but they could just drop by when you're not their and tape the form to the door if they wished.

Some do email it to without encryption, but at least I tell them up front Not To for security purposes. After that it is their problem. But if I didn't tell them and something happens to them the burden could be on me, or at least preceived.

[luke]

Seriously?

I'm sure we're NOT expected to do Handwriting Analysis........

[BOB W]

I'm sure we're NOT expected to do Handwriting Analysis........

I've had clients tell me "My wife is in the car, I'll get her to sign". Not my problem, all is good.

[oceanlovin'ea]

Trust them

The ones that have to take the form home to their spouse are not ones I would worry about. I guess there might be times that would create a problem. But I know most of my clients and new ones are referrals from them.

If I had a store front operation, I might feel differently.

Linda

[taxea]

Thanks Don. What is it you call an "SASE?"

I also have a problem getting returns over and done with. Telling the customer to send something back to you will (more often than you think) result in a delay. This doesn't mean your advice isn't good, but the only way for me to make sure I get the document back is to hold off the E-file until it comes back in.

that won't happen if you tell them that the return will not be filed until the 8879 is returned to your office. Even if paid, I don't file until I have the signed 8879

[spanel]

I've had clients tell me "My wife is in the car, I'll get her to sign". Not my problem, all is good.

You'll think that until an angry wife comes in screaming that you filed her on a return that she didnt want to be on.. or her husband took all the money and spent it on something stupid... believe me, it happens.


chris

[ttbtaxes]

How is the client forging his wife's signature on the 8879 any different than the client forging his wife's signature on a paper return you prepared?

In both cases the client's wife is going to create a firestorm. In both cases, she will ask how you got her documents. In both cases, she want to know why a tax return was prepared with her name on it. In both cases, she will eventually turn her high-powered laser beams exactly where they belong. Her husband.

As long as you acted professionally and have no knowledge of his forging a document, signed under penalties of perjury, how can you possibly get into trouble?

[spanel]

Thats why I dont do paper returns.. and if I do, I treat them the same way, I need approval from both parties.

Chris

[ttbtaxes]

Clearly, your method is the safest way to proceed. No argument here.

It's a slippery slope and just not the road I'm going to travel because once I start that then I am going to also need to see social security cards for every person on the tax return, marriage certificates to prove marital status, birth certificates to prove age, etc.

[FEDUKE404]

Disagree with premise

......May sound like a simple question, but keep in mind that ethically, the situation is no different than signing as preparer and giving him back his return to paper file. I'm just wondering if there is a prescribed difference in the way we are supposed to handle it.

I think there is a world of difference between the two.

If I prepare a paper return, and give that completed return to the client for filing after H/W affix signatures, I have no control over who did or did not sign the return. Should there be problems (fake signatures) that will be the taxpayer's responsibility.

OTOH, for me to efile (using Form 8879) I tell the client I cannot (and will not!) file the tax returns until I have a signed copy of the Form 8879 for my files. That IS my responsibility.

So long as I have shown reasonable due diligence in the preparation of the return (and no hand-writing expert, or photocopy of marriage license, need be involved) I have met my responsibility to allow me to efile the tax return.

FE

[David1980]

The risk of losing one's ability to efile returns should they go through an efile compliance audit seems pretty severe. I don't even know what that would mean with efile mandate. If you file returns without appropriate signatures, have your efile privileges revoked, can you even preparer taxes anymore due to efile mandate or are you just looking for a new job? Even if you could preparer them and paper file, would your customers still come to you when you can't efile?

Why risk it. Just get signatures before filing returns.

[taxxcpa]

Signatures

To play devils advicate... are you guys calling the spouses to make sure they actually signed it and the taxpayer didnt forge the signiture?

I call the spouse to make sure they actually signed it. Dont want an upset spouse because the taxpayer filed without them knowing.


Chris

Some people are pretty good at forging their husband's or wife's signature.

[Snaggletooth]

Germane to the Problem

I think there is a world of difference between the two.

If I prepare a paper return, and give that completed return to the client for filing after H/W affix signatures, I have no control over who did or did not sign the return. Should there be problems (fake signatures) that will be the taxpayer's responsibility.

Duke, I think this response was where the OP was headed.

Both paper file and e-file begin with the problem, namely preparation of the return with the participation of only one spouse. Conventionally, handing the paper return to hubby for him to get his wife to sign could result in a forgery and deception. Handing the 8879 to hubby for him to get his wife to sign and return to us prior to e-filing can result in forgery and deception. Yet we feel if the 8879 is returned to us, we have fulfilled our responsibility. Or do we?

Does Cir. 1230 or ERO regulations make a distinction?

[Burke]

f you file returns without appropriate signatures, have your efile privileges revoked, can you even preparer taxes anymore due to efile mandate or are you just looking for a new job?

A colleague of mine had his revoked, but he could still file paper. I think the efile was restored the next tax year. It was kind of a one-year suspension. And I cannot remember the infraction that caused it, or if the reinstatement was automatic.

[MAJ]

Don't E-File until you have it - AGREED...

Few years back (when 8879 had to be sent in).
I had clients sign the 8879. Never noticed - wife signed both copies (mine/theirs) while husband only signed one. Filed the return. Obviously I received a letter a few months later asking for these 5 8879 forms from different clients.
I pull them out of the filing cabinet where I noticed right away the husband didn't sign.
Called the house only to find out some time later that they split and were not talking. I had to call / respond to the IRS why I didn't have a fully signed copy. I apologiezed and informed them I would tighten controls. I was told to document this all in writing and send in the copy with one signature. That was the end. That was about 5 years ago (something like that).

Now? I make sure I have everything signed if needed ASAP..... I will NOT file unless I know I have the document verified.