NAEA Members - Request for Your Support

[Uncle Sam]

This upcoming election to be held in December 2010, there is going to be a Past President of NAEA - Francis X Degen, EA, TCP who will be running from the floor for the position of President Elect.

Frank is a true voice of Enrolled Agents and tax practitioners. As I said above, he's been Past President of NAEA, a NTPI Fellow and instructor, a U. S. Tax Court Practitioner, and has very often provided valuable input to us on this board under the signature of New York Enrolled Agent.

To give you some more details of his background please click on this link

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/francis_x_degen.pdf

In case you're not familiar with "running from the floor" - that means that he was not selected from the nominating committee and he has to run in opposition to that candidate.

The reason for his running relates to his commitment to further the EA profession and bring back some stability and concrete positive direction to NAEA that has apparently gone off course in the administration of NAEA in recent years that presently is causing a conflict harmful to the health of NAEA.

As a founding member of the NYSSEA and have seen Frank's positive influence right from the beginning from his leadership within NYSSEA to his position of NAEA Past President I can attest to his credibility.

I ask that you support Frank "from the floor" as I will.

Uncle Sam, CPA, EA

[AJsTax]

Why?

Why was he not selected by the very well represented and highly qualified nominating committee that put in an exceptional number of hours reviewing all the nominees before making a selection?
Why should we go against the committee made up of fellow EAs?? They were the ones there and know all the nominees better than anyone else in the country, not individually, obviously, but as a group presented for selection.
I do not dispute the fact that there should be an avenue available to run a campaign in addition to the nominee of the committee. I just want to why he is considered more qualified than the selection of OUR nominating committee??
The situation was discussed at our State Convention this past week and the request at that time was to take the time to read the bios of all the nominees and check them out before making a decision. No names were mentioned in favor or against anyone. I believe that is a much better way to approach the request. Our EVP also explained very well how the nominating committee did their work, and I will find it EXTREMELY difficult to go against their selections.
AJ EA

[taxmandan]

Here's my reason for why:

I don't have all the particulars for the disconnect between the national office and the nominating committee choices and these leading advocates for EAs, but I am familiar with Frank, and Byran Gates (who is the founder of the NTPI) and both are strong advocates for EAs. I have the highest respect for their opinions, both jointly and singularly, and if they advocate an alternative to the corporate nominees I'm with them, not the national nominating committee. Bios on the nominee list don't tell the whole story.

Daniel

Why was he not selected by the very well represented and highly qualified nominating committee that put in an exceptional number of hours reviewing all the nominees before making a selection?
Why should we go against the committee made up of fellow EAs?? They were the ones there and know all the nominees better than anyone else in the country, not individually, obviously, but as a group presented for selection.
I do not dispute the fact that there should be an avenue available to run a campaign in addition to the nominee of the committee. I just want to why he is considered more qualified than the selection of OUR nominating committee??
The situation was discussed at our State Convention this past week and the request at that time was to take the time to read the bios of all the nominees and check them out before making a decision. No names were mentioned in favor or against anyone. I believe that is a much better way to approach the request. Our EVP also explained very well how the nominating committee did their work, and I will find it EXTREMELY difficult to go against their selections.
AJ EA

[Jiggers]

Frank is well qualified

Another comment is that there is going to be a congressional hearing next week regarding Circular 230.

NAEA is sending Bob Kerr, not an EA, to present the EA's viewpoint.

Frank should be the one going.

[AJsTax]

Another comment is that there is going to be a congressional hearing next week regarding Circular 230.

NAEA is sending Bob Kerr, not an EA, to present the EA's viewpoint.

Frank should be the one going.

Robert Kerr
Senior Director, Government Relations
National Association of Enrolled Agents

That is his title. How can Frank be more qualified?? The man going is THE one in that position, like it or not.
I met the new EVP and I think he will take the organization in a good direction if there is not so much division that it is torn apart.

Enough on here. any more discussion really should be in the closed forum.

[erchess]

Concrete Platform Please

What has the NAEA done or not done that Frank and his supporters would do differently? The current bunch in charge seems to be doing a good job of representing the interests of the EA Profession. Witness the recent IRS announcement that if any of the current Circular 230 professionals are allowed to have their subordinate preparers exempted from the requirements for testing, all will be.

As for the decision to send Bob Kerr to talk to Congress, Bob, while not an EA is the person who was hired to be in charge of our relationship with Government. I would think that in that position political skills would be more important than tax knowledge. After all, he is not to advocate for what he thinks is a good idea but rather for the ideas the organization tells him to advocate for.

I'm only asking because on the one hand I know of nothing I would criticize in the organization's work and on the other hand I have immense respect for Frank and for all of those who to my knowledge are urging people to support him.

[ChEAr$]

Robert Kerr
Senior Director, Government Relations
National Association of Enrolled Agents

That is his title. How can Frank be more qualified?? The man going is THE one in that position, like it or not.
I met the new EVP and I think he will take the organization in a good direction if there is not so much division that it is torn apart.

Enough on here. any more discussion really should be in the closed forum.

Mighty right, Frank IS the one who should be going; at least accompanying Kerr if need be.

And for the record, the NAEA nominating committee comes up with a slate consisting of
only one name for each position, not like the old days when there was some choice.
First they discontinued multiple nominations for officers; then several years later, also
discontinued multiple choices for directors. The was it was explained at a meeting I attended in Virginia about that time, such procedures were deemed "best practices" by those in the organizational business. Balderdash!

I recommend to all NAEA members that they vote for Frank, the better man for the job.

Hmmm, yes, That's probably the best way to say what i'm thinking.

[Uncle Sam]

NAEA Members-Request for Your Support

To My Fellow EAs on this Board -
I have known Frank Degen for approximately 15 years - as I stated before - in his capacity in going through the NYSSEA chairs, then being among the first EAs to pass the U.S. Tax Court Exam, then as NAEA's President. He has continued in various capacities with NAEA long after his term of Presidency ended - most notably working ALONG WITH Bob Kerr in testifying before Congressional Committees on pro EA legislation and regulation.
He would not be undertaking this action of getting back into the administrative seat of NAEA unless he had confirmed convictions of wrongdoing within NAEA and having the desire to correct it.
If you read this afternoon's EAlert - you saw that there is presently a lawsuit against NAEA by a candidate who is complaining of a breach of an employment contract.
This did not result just within the last few months. The current EVP has been there since last fall - so this problem has been lurking for about a year.
I have been an NAEA member since 1980 - and a lawsuit of this nature has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It is highly probable that the members of the NAEA administration who caused it to happen is the very reason he decided to run in the first place.

So I get the impression that there are very serious undertones to this issue that have not (and probably cannot) be disclosed at this time.

So it is very possible that Frank has facts that we don't - since being a Past President he's more familiar with the inner workings of NAEA.

The fact that Bob Kerr will be attending the hearings has nothing to do with Frank's candidacy.

Before any further debate takes place on this board over this issue - I suggest to all that when all candidates' bios come out - you each read them and make your own decision.

But also recognize that having a national organization be hit with a major lawsuit is no issue to take lightly.

[AJsTax]

The issue of the

lawsuit is something that needs to be discussed with the persons involved, and until it is resolved they are restricted from saying very much. Would not be right for persons on either side of the suit. The fact was made that the lawsuit is not costing the organization, the insurance company is providing the coverage and the law team to defend the rightful actions of the NAEA. The main context of the suit we do know, the first choice of the selection committee for the new EVP was unable to come to agreeable terms with the Association on a salary, so when that failed, the committee went with the next person. That is the normal procedure in any hiring. The person that would not come to agreement feels they were wronged in the process and filed suit. That is their right, and in today job climate happens very, very often. The board and lawyers seem to feel that they will prevail. DISCLAIMER: That is my understanding of what happened is intended to be a very short synopsis and is not backed by any papers of any kind!!

I do not and can not dispute the qualifications of Frank or any other candidate for office in the NAEA. If you do not like the procedure in place for nomination of officer candidates then get involved and get it changed. Get an amendment passed to require at least two candidates be on the ballot for an election. I was told that in the past it was at times difficult to find even one to fill some of the positions. It does require a huge commitment to hold an office in any organization like this and most of us can not take that much time away from our own jobs or businesses.
Only time will tell. We will read the bios, talk to the candidates and others that are familiar with the candidates and make an informed decision when that day comes, won't we?

[taxea]

When I feel like NAEA has fulfilled its statement that it would make EA's known to the general public and when they stop requiring membership to local and national divisions then I will join and support them.

[Snaggletooth]

Representation

And for the record, the NAEA nominating committee comes up with a slate consisting of only one name for each position, not like the old days when there was some choice. First they discontinued multiple nominations for officers; then several years later, also discontinued multiple choices for directors. The was it was explained at a meeting I attended in Virginia about that time, such procedures were deemed "best practices" by those in the organizational business. Balderdash!

I'm not an EA, don't have a dog in the hunt on their election. I will say it would be hard to find a more knowledgeable and helpful person than NYEA, from whom we hear often on this message board.

What I'm hearing is that a "committee" has perhaps distanced itself from its constituency. This is a danger when organizations become so large they feel like the affairs become so wieldy that a committee (or some other organizational hierarchy) becomes elected to supervise these affairs and the decisions appertaining thereunto. The endorsement of only one candidate sounds like an inner-circle cronyism may have taken over. If this is true, then the servings of that group will ultimately root out the greatest good to the greatest number.

Rank-and-file membership alone cannot tend to all the business that confronts a group of several thousand members. It would be the ultimate model of democracy it this could be the case. But the formation of a committee brings forth a group which too often turns its concerns inward instead of outward. Being a committee member can become an end within itself. The best way to protect against this is to have bylaws that create accountability and term limits.

[taxxcpa]

Term limits

. Being a committee member can become an end within itself. The best way to protect against this is to have bylaws that create accountability and term limits.

You make an excellent point, the proof of which is the way our congressional representatives have designed things in a way to make it difficult to replace them. Even unpaid or low-paid positions of authority have some kind of attraction which makes their re-election priority one and any service to their constituents something geared mainly toward getting enough votes.

CPA organizations are similar. They are run by members of the larger national firms for the most part. They have little to offer to sole practitioners.

[Uncle Sam]

NAEA Members-Request for Your Support

You make an excellent point, the proof of which is the way our congressional representatives have designed things in a way to make it difficult to replace them. Even unpaid or low-paid positions of authority have some kind of attraction which makes their re-election priority one and any service to their constituents something geared mainly toward getting enough votes.

CPA organizations are similar. They are run by members of the larger national firms for the most part. They have little to offer to sole practitioners.

This discussion is getting quite off topic from it's original intended purpose.

The "committee" people in NAEA are volunteer members - not full time paid staff making executive decisions. There's a big difference. Congress representatives are elected to perform a full time job - committee responsibilities are part of their job.

Second- the reason for paying dual (National and State) membership is to encourage all the members to participate in member association activities as much as possible - to provide 1) CPE forums, and 2) Network with other more local professional EAs.
I have heard the issue (and it IS valid) that some members live too far distant from their resident state society's membership meetings. While I can't address that issue personally since I do participate in my state society - that is something to speak with NAEA about - but has nothing to do with supporting a particular candidate for office.

Please - let's not get off topic.

[dtlee]

I have no idea what is going on with the NAEA, but this thread and the recent e-mail rant from the President against the Gates Newsletter has me concerned that their leadership, like our country's leaders, has been distracted from their purpose. While I have no proof that it is related, there has also been a reduction in features that used to be common. For example, the quarterly snippets that we used to be able to send to clients as newsletters, first became less "client-focused" and then, less than quarterly. Also, this year, there have been few (if any) minutes from their regular meetings (unless there have been no regular meetings).

Regarding the EVP lawsuit (which I likewise have no knowledge about), it is interesting to read this snippet from the Search Committee where it becomes obvious that there is some level of internal strife among the leadership of this organization:

http://www.naea.org/NR/rdonlyres/B79EE10B-0B15-48C5-9D78-45404D7F9B21/0/23SearchCommitteeRptNov09.doc

[Uncle Sam]

Friendly Reminder of NAEA Election

In just a couple of days - NAEA will be holding its election of officers.

Once again, I ask that you support Frank Degen for his position as President-Elect.

The bios on all the candidates have been made public by this time.