IRS needs proof that ext was filed, what?

[Black Bart]

Proof of mailing

I was told a long time ago that proof of mailing something to the IRS is just that proof that you mailed SOMETHING to them. It does not dictate or prove what was in the envelope, if anything. I was like WHAT!?

So - anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, I have heard that for a long time and it's true. Years ago I read of a CPA who advised having a notary public witness and acknowledge that extensions were placed in the certfied/registered envelope; his theory being that such would constitute legal proof. While I don't know of anybody actually going to such extremes, I always worried that if IRS really pushed a big penalty, we really could't prove it was an extension that was mailed -- even if sent certified. However, JohnH's post was reassuring:

... I've seen probably a dozen instances...client received a notice that the return or extension was late filed...we had a certified mail sticker with return receipt to show IRS. In every instance they accepted that as proof and removed the penalties without question. Even had one last year with a corp audit and several thousand dollars in penalties at stake. Once we produced the certified mail sticker and return receipt card, the penalties were immediately removed. Nobody ever questioned what was or was not in the envelope. I do write on the sticker and also on the Return Receipt Card a notation about what's inside, and I photocopy both before mailing.

All this is moot of course, if EF extensions are filed. I think I'll switch to that next time and stop worrying about it.

BTW: I'm back!! Not that you missed me.! 8-

Agree with S T -- you were missed (good, knowledgeable tech-guys always are). Where've you been, anyway?

[S T]

Glad you are back

We did miss you, at least I for one missed you

Sandy

[MAJ]

Snail Mail...? Are you kidding?

If you use snail mail, then the client should get a proof of mailing and attach it to the client's printed copy of the extension.

If e-filed, as noted, you will have a confirmation of acceptance by the IRS and the log could even show what type of form was filed.

The e-File acceptance and reject logs let you know the exact status of your client returns. Yes the is some additional work in tracking this data, but if there is a problem with the client's return, you will know about it and can address it before the client gets an unreadable notice from the IRS in 16 weeks. Think of this as providing better client service and a reason your service fee is cost justified by a better level of service provided by the local currency exchange or hair dresser down the street.

I was told a long time ago that proof of mailing something to the IRS is just that proof that you mailed SOMETHING to them. It does not dictate or prove what was in the envelope, if anything. I was like WHAT!?

So - anyone else ever hear that??

BTW: I'm back!! Not that you missed me.! 8-)

[Black Bart]

Gettin' your licks in

Now if I could just figure out how to stop the screen from defaulting upon opening to "threaded" mode instead of "linear."

Try NOT logging out.....

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...The tales I tell are real events; but for dramatic effect I occasionally take a tad of what I call artistic license and what my wife calls stretchin' it...

Or as my father-in-law used to say, "I ain't calling him a liar, but sometimes he's been known to play fast & loose with the truth."

Posting around you two boys is like being on the receiving end of tag team wrestlers.

[JohnH]

--> The tales I tell are real events; but for dramatic effect I occasionally take a tad of what I call artistic license and what my wife calls stretchin' it. <---

Or as my father-in-law used to say, "I ain't calling him a liar, but sometimes he's been known to play fast & loose with the truth."

[Black Bart]

Hey Veritas,

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Shoot, an overweight lawyer here got a letter from a female divorce client in Chicago who forgot his name and addressed it to "Big Fat Lawyer At Possum Holler." They delivered it to him. Boy, was he upset!

Wouldn't you be upset if someone called you a lawyer?

Lol. I wish I lived in Possum Holler.

Davc's funny joke about my joke (and my nagging wife) prompts a few editorial corrections (don't want you to immigrate to PH and be disappointed). The tales I tell are real events; but for dramatic effect I occasionally take a tad of what I call artistic license and what my wife calls stretchin' it. Therefore I must clarify that, although our excellent USPS service is exactly as previously stated, the above-quoted "lawyer" incident (while a "real" experience that happened to my best friend's father) occurred in...ahem...1959. And, I forgot, but the name of the state was also on the envelope; and the origin may or may not have been Chicago (don't remember for sure), but it was from "up North" somerwhere.

So there, my conscience is clear -- didn't want you to go postal from nostalgia for the "old days/ways." Our postal people are great, but the system's a little nutty -- local delivery letters are mailed here, then trucked off 20 miles, and later brought right back here again. Also, we formerly sent bulk mail to name, street, and "City" without spelling out the city, state, and zip code. No more; I tried last year -- they sent 'em back to me. Also a clerk tells me the handy address "General Delivery" was discontinued three years ago (news to me -- I've been using it since and no problems). Our guys here are very good about delivering badly-addressed mail, but I'd guess that my "lawyer letter" would never even clear the sending post office using such an address nowadays.

Anyway, we're somewhat insulated here in the mythical Possum Holler/ Podunk Junction/ Rubesburg/ Dogpatch (I'm in there somewhere) backwoods of rural Arkansas, but the Mayberry aura is fading...I'd like to move to Oregon, stand in line at the post office, and pay no sales tax (ours is 6%).

[FEDUKE404]

In the mode...

Now if I could just figure out how to stop the screen from defaulting upon opening to "threaded" mode instead of "linear."

Try NOT logging out.....

[Black Bart]

Thanks Rita,

Hey, Black Bart, you may not be goin quickly into that dark night electronically, but you are the King of quote, copy, and paste.

Davc, good one. Really good...

Now if I could just figure out how to stop the screen from defaulting upon opening to "threaded" mode instead of "linear."

[RitaB]

Hey, BB

Hey, Black Bart, you may not be goin quickly into that dark night electronically, but you are the King of quote, copy, and paste.

Davc, good one. Really good...

[Davc]

Shoot, an overweight lawyer here got a letter from a female divorce client in Chicago who forgot his name and addressed it to "Big Fat Lawyer At Possum Holler." They delivered it to him. Boy, was he upset!

Wouldn't you be upset if someone called you a lawyer?

[Black Bart]

Thanks for the info, FE

It's (8878) a very close cousin to the Form 8879. In simple terms, it is prepared along with Form 4868 in situations only where a payment is due along with the filing extension. Among other things, it authorizes the IRS to debit the selected bank account for the extension payment you have chosen. (It also can be used for all those Forms 2350 you file.... ). You should be able to find a copy/instructions on the IRS web site. Most preparer software will handle the completion/filing of Form 4868 as well as Form 8878 when it is also needed. As noted earlier, there is a (electronic) paper trail for all extension filing as well as the bank debit information. I've used electronic Form 4868s for many clients, with no problems. For the few that also had to send money (including myself! ), the Form 8878 and debit worked fine. One minor difference: For any extension payment (unlike regular tax balances due) the only debit date is 04/15/201*. My guess is the IRS coffers swell mightily the morning of 04/16. Hope this helps.

FE

I'll go quietly and electronically now. Gosh , this sure is simpler than writin' a check* and droppin' an envelope in the mail, isn't it? While I promise to do right and make 8878s hereinafter, I'm obliged to confess that I've sent in lotsa clients' 4868s with money and without asking a single soul for permission (reckon there's any retroactive penalties on that?)

Regards, Bart

*Checks were paper bank drafts once widely used to pay bills.

[FEDUKE404]

About cutting up

Interesting point. I find that cutting the carbon paper in 2" wide strips and lining it up just under the numbers column works just fine. It's more environmentally friendly and I'm saving a ton of money - have you seen what carbon paper costs these days?

Agreed - I've also noted a significant increase in overhead costs for the White Out I keep applying to my computer monitor.

And I DO miss those old mimeograph fumes.........

FE

[FEDUKE404]

Some Form 8878 info

...... but since I'm soon gonna be forced into your electronic corral, could you elaborate on that form 8878 you mentioned? What's it good for and when does it have to be used, etc.? Thanks much.

It's a very close cousin to the Form 8879.

In simple terms, it is prepared along with Form 4868 in situations only where a payment is due along with the filing extension. Among other things, it authorizes the IRS to debit the selected bank account for the extension payment you have chosen. (It also can be used for all those Forms 2350 you file.... )

You should be able to find a copy/instructions on the IRS web site.

Most preparer software will handle the completion/filing of Form 4868 as well as Form 8878 when it is also needed. As noted earlier, there is a (electronic) paper trail for all extension filing as well as the bank debit information.

I've used electronic Form 4868s for many clients, with no problems. For the few that also had to send money (including myself! ), the Form 8878 and debit worked fine.

One minor difference: For any extension payment (unlike regular tax balances due) the only debit date is 04/15/201*. My guess is the IRS coffers swell mightily the morning of 04/16.

Hope this helps.

FE

[JohnH]

Interesting point. I find that cutting the carbon paper in 2" wide strips and lining it up just under the numbers column works just fine. It's more environmentally friendly and I'm saving a ton of money - have you seen what carbon paper costs these days?

[Black Bart]

Posts and post offices

Post Office - What's THAT???...

Long ago...when the earth was young (the dark ages), men took quill and candle in hand, inscribed parchment, and entrusted the fruits of their toil to USPS who dispatched worthy yeomen on swift steeds galloping through the night....

Then, all that was swept away with the introduction of the Samsung Zapatron and HP's Belchdata 8 and now...

... A few clicks on the computer - problem solved...

(Next topic will be dial-up internet access issues and proper carbon paper retirement.)FE

Thanks for any dial-up and carbon tips you may have, FE ; as you can see from my and Rita's posts below (she's got a great sense of humor, eh?), they are timely indeed.

...Next thing, they'll be wantin' us to give up carbon paper

Power to the Petrified
They'll have to pry it out of our cold purple fingers.

Listen, no offense but I've kinda already got my carbon paper retirement system in place and don't really want switch to another, but since I'm soon gonna be forced into your electronic corral, could you elaborate on that form 8878 you mentioned? What's it good for and when does it have to be used, etc.? Thanks much.