IRS needs proof that ext was filed, what?

[JohnH]

I dislike

accepting liablity for other people's responsibilities. Can't argue with your logic regarding the parking, lines, and environment. A few of my clients express some of the same sentiments when I hand them their envelopes, but I just keep doing it anyhow.

However, it's been my experience that the Post Office is very reliable, especially for the prices they charge.

[Gary2]

The IRS has always accepted a 'proof of mailing' receipt' for verification that a form has been sent to them.

Although I've used a "Certificate of mailing" (a few cents more than the cost of a stamp) many years ago for my own personal return, the regulations specify only certified (about two and a half dollars) or registered (higher cost) as a priori proof of mailing (assuming the IRS can't produce the original envelope). That's in 26 CFR 301.7502-1(c)(2). Which is not to say that the IRS or a court wouldn't choose to accept the cheapest form as proof, but it's not something I'd suggest to clients.

My take on the higher cost of registered mail is that it's only necessary if the document itself has intrinsic value (e.g. stock certificates, bonds, etc.). With registered mail, not only is there more detailed tracking, but the envelope is more tightly sealed. The last time I used it, the post office employee put the 3 inch clear packaging tape around all four edges.

[Uncle]

SimpleCertifiedMail

going to the PO. It always has a line and only one or two clerks. It is so SLOW. parking is bad too. Other than the DMV and the IRS it is the worst run agency I have ever experienced.

So I don't go there anymore. Just click on cilent and efile the extension. Takes about 5 seconds.

It is good for the enviroment. That is I don't get postal and create excess carbon dioxide.

If you cannot efile and have to use certified mail, you can do that directly from your computer without messing about with the postoffice.

http://www.simplecertifiedmail.com/

[JohnH]

I was not familiar with the link you posted and it looks interesting for many types of mailings. But if I'm going to rely on Certified Mail for proof of mailing a tax return or extension, I want a postal clerk to validate the mailing, either via a hand stamp or a printed receipt from their counter machine. I could be wrong, but I doubt IRS would accept anything else if there's a significant issue at stake.

[gkaiseril]

The U.S. Postal Service offer a number of services on line that do not even require you or your clients to go to a post office. These services are beyond "stamps by mail", see Delivery Confirmation ( http://www.usps.com/shipping/deliveryconfirm.htm ). And the IRS accepts the USPS delivery confirmation. But if you do not, maybe you should hand deliver the documents to the IRS Service Center.

You can also hand deliver the items to your local IRS office and have the IRS staff hand stamp a copy of the material you give them.

[JohnH]

Not that it's definitive, but here's a reasonably good discussion of the subject:

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/b/2009/09/21/mailing-tax-returns-to-the-irs-did-it-get-there-on-time.htm

For me, it just reinforces the wisdom of mailing at t he post office via certified mail with return receipt.

[Gary2]

I never do return receipt requested for the IRS. First, all you need is proof that it was mailed. As far as I know, you're not liable if the Postal Service loses it - though it's a nuisance with or without a return receipt. Second, you can track delivery online with certified mail, without a return receipt requested.

I use a return receipt for sending things to private parties, businesses, etc., where I don't trust that deliver to a particular address will be accepted as receipt by the right person. But I don't see that the extra cost for a signature by an IRS employee is worth it, when another Federal agency is willing to confirm that it was delivered to the right place.

[JohnH]

I agree that it isn't necessary to use return receipt, but I like it just for the warm fuzzy feeling. I pre-address them to be sent back to me, rather than the client. It also helps if the clients calls to ask about the return - I can tell them when IRS received it without even going online or making a phone call.

But this thread has raised another huge question in my mind. I've been led to believe I'm practically the last Neandertal who isn't e-flinging those returns. Now I find that we have a lot of people who are still sending something in paper form - otherwise we wouldn't be having this stimulating discussion about the fine points of how to mail it in.

[Black Bart]

Aw!

going to the PO...always has a line...only one or two clerks... so SLOW...parking is bad...I don't go there anymore...It is good for the enviroment...I don't get postal... and create excess carbon dioxide.

Everybody's always complainin' about the post office, but we get great service in Possum Holler. The slow-paced life here makes for tranquility, but maybe it's constipation from frustration that makes y'all wanta go postal. I s'pose that's unlikely though, since Davc told me Oregon just got two million dollars worth of government commodes (now that is a stimulatin' stimulus payment).

Our lines are only two-three people long (none at all about half the time), there's parkin' galore (maybe that big unused 40 spot cement lot is why they're broke), and clerks are friendly, efficient local folks (two are clients) who go the extra mile. Drop it in the wrong box - they'll fish it out for you. Forget your key -- they'll check your box. Shoot, an overweight lawyer here got a letter from a female divorce client in Chicago who forgot his name and addressed it to "Big Fat Lawyer At Possum Holler." They delivered it to him. Boy, was he upset!

[OtisMozzetti]

use of the post office

going to the PO. It always has a line and only one or two clerks. It is so SLOW. parking is bad too. Other than the DMV and the IRS it is the worst run agency I have ever experienced.

I do agree with the observations by John H, and you and probably lots of others, that we tax professionals should not be in the role of having responsibility to mail tax filings on behalf of our clients. In connection, though, with an audit examination; I have found it easy enough (minimal lines even when the office is "closed") and effective to stop over at the "Automated Postal Center" (machines) at the post office a mile away and to send letters or documents via certified mail no return receipt requested at time of mailing. I could get documentation, for a price, later from the postal service, but it seems to me I have a cost effective way to get everyone aware that we mean business about getting whatever it is to the IRS person. I am often sending them a written confirmation of what has already been sent via fax.

[veritas]

Lol

. Shoot, an overweight lawyer here got a letter from a female divorce client in Chicago who forgot his name and addressed it to "Big Fat Lawyer At Possum Holler." They delivered it to him. Boy, was he upset!

I wish I lived in Possum Holler.

[Davc]

that[/i] is a stimulatin' stimulus payment).

Not Oregon, the 2.25 million on commodes is just within 25 miles of Roseburg.

[Black Bart]

Beg pardon

...Davc told me Oregon just got two million dollars worth of government commodes...

Not Oregon, the 2.25 million on commodes is just within 25 miles of Roseburg.

for misrepresentin' you. I thought that much money would be distributed statewide, but if all those commodes are goin' to Roseburg and its 'burbs, then y'all are sittin' pretty.

At $100 each (cheap model price) $2 1/4 million would buy....um...let's see, that's 22,500 commodes isn't it? Rather than "A Chicken in Every Pot" (attributed to Herbert Hoover's '32 presidential race), BO could use "A Pot on Every Lot" as a campaign slogan. It's a no-lose comparison since Hoover (one of our guys/Republican/mere mortal) oversaw the Great Depression while your guy is holding back the ocean's tide.

[FEDUKE404]

Post Office - What's THAT???

Another fine reason to efile!

Several of my clients needed to file extensions this year. A few clicks on the computer - problem solved (at no cost to me) and a message such as this was soon returned:

This federal extension was accepted by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) on 4/13/2010. The Declaration Control Number (DCN) for this federal extension is shown below.

And for those who needed to pay on 04/15, that debit option also existed with use of Form 8878. Only bump in that road was first getting the client signature(s).

(Next topic will be dial-up internet access issues and proper carbon paper retirement.)

FE

[Black Bart]

Posts and post offices

Post Office - What's THAT???...

Long ago...when the earth was young (the dark ages), men took quill and candle in hand, inscribed parchment, and entrusted the fruits of their toil to USPS who dispatched worthy yeomen on swift steeds galloping through the night....

Then, all that was swept away with the introduction of the Samsung Zapatron and HP's Belchdata 8 and now...

... A few clicks on the computer - problem solved...

(Next topic will be dial-up internet access issues and proper carbon paper retirement.)FE

Thanks for any dial-up and carbon tips you may have, FE ; as you can see from my and Rita's posts below (she's got a great sense of humor, eh?), they are timely indeed.

...Next thing, they'll be wantin' us to give up carbon paper

Power to the Petrified
They'll have to pry it out of our cold purple fingers.

Listen, no offense but I've kinda already got my carbon paper retirement system in place and don't really want switch to another, but since I'm soon gonna be forced into your electronic corral, could you elaborate on that form 8878 you mentioned? What's it good for and when does it have to be used, etc.? Thanks much.