NATP Conference CPE Hours

[Vic Ferrari]

The NATP conference in Minneapolis was excellent. The organizers were obviously all "A Players".

The old system of signing in and tracking your CPE hours with a two part NCR carbonless form may be replaced by having a bar code around your neck to be scanned into each class as it starts. This year NATP used both systems.

I for one would prefer not to be treated like a can of soup at the grocery store. Is this actually required by the IRS or is this full Big Brother something that is over kill?

Please let me know what you think.

[Snaggletooth]

Electronic Backlash

Vic, I (among many others) am essentially rebelling against the expectations of institutions that we put up with a bunch of new age crap so they can reduce their service levels and apparent costs.

In (rare) cases where I am the customer, I will absolutely NOT deal with a telephone menu, and tell the sales reps to call ME. Some tax clients tell me they can't get through when they call the IRS, and when they do they NEVER get to talk to a real person. This is intentional on the part of the IRS to reduce their costs obviously. Another post on this board tells us how they were planning to shut down their customer centers in favor of call centers (no doubt run by people overseas and with even more emphasis on telephone menus).

I don't have a cell phone -- you reach me through the conventional channels and during the hours I work or you have to wait until tomorrow. On my real job (my tax practice is part-time), on several occasions I see the boss running down the hall to catch me at 5:00 because he knows he can't chase me down on a cell phone.

Some of these devices are good and productive - bar scanning for point-of-sales and inventory control. For females driving at night -- a cell phone is a great device.

We should be stand up and be counted when institutions use electronic-age devices to bail out of old-fashioned service and treat us like anything except human beings.

Regards,

Ronald V. Jordan (and for the poster, the "V" is for Victor)

[JG EA]

Turning bold

I agree with you Snag and am putting forth mild protests also.

I was the kind who would fill out every line on the dentist's clipboard questionaire. If people asked me questions I would answer every one. It finally dawned on me (old age probably) that NO I didn't have to do so. Now I answer the essential questions and leave many blank lines. When making payments and the requests come for my pet's names, my first school, first car, for MY PROTECTION, I refuse.

And the really surprising thing is no one cares. They never read what you write down anyway.

.

[Armando Beaujolais]

I agree with you Snag and am putting forth mild protests also.

I was the kind who would fill out every line on the dentist's clipboard questionaire. If people asked me questions I would answer every one. It finally dawned on me (old age probably) that NO I didn't have to do so. Now I answer the essential questions and leave many blank lines. When making payments and the requests come for my pet's names, my first school, first car, for MY PROTECTION, I refuse.

I'm just curious. Do you have your clients fill out a questionaire? What if one of your clients refused to answer several questions because they felt the questions were too intrusive? Does it depend on which side of the fence you're sitting on perhaps?

Please don't think that people put together medical questionaires just to waste time and to ask irrelevant questions.

Your clients probably think you never look at the answers to your questionaires too.

If one of my clients adamantly refused to answer a question I'd put in front of them out of some sense of privacy invasion, I'd fire the client.

[Bjorn]

Bar Codes

I agree, I don't like to be "scanned" into classes. Are there other educational opportunities that will just let you sign in and out with the same high quality of NATP?

Welcome to 1984.

[JG EA]

Refuse to answer

I'm just curious. Do you have your clients fill out a questionaire? What if one of your clients refused to answer several questions because they felt the questions were too intrusive? Does it depend on which side of the fence you're sitting on perhaps?
Your clients probably think you never look at the answers to your questionaires too.
If one of my clients adamantly refused to answer a question I'd put in front of them out of some sense of privacy invasion, I'd fire the client.

Actually I've had very few questions unanswered. One time a client refused to give me her birthdate and I worked without it. I wouldn't think of firing her and respected her privacy. I did explain that I had to (of course) assume she wasn't over 65.

The only private questions I ask are income and expense questions and since they are coming to me for income and expense reasons, no one has refused those. And no, I do not require that they fill out the organizer. They may if they want, but they do not have to do so.

[S T]

Questions

Well I see both sides. As professionals gathering information and preparing tax returns for clients, there is a certain amount of information that we would require for due diligence and to prepare an accurate return.

An example would be a birth date. However, as JG stated, I also have been put in the position of a client refusing to provide her actual birthdate. A long time client refused to give me her year of birth, but since I have been preparing her returns for over 20 years and before and after her retirement, I resigned myself to never knowing her actual year of birth. She did however confirm that yes she was many years past 65, but would not directly tell how many! What is a person to do in a situation like this? I was comfortable knowing she had confirmed the over 65!

Now if the taxpayer/client refuses to confirm pertinent information relating to accuracy on the tax return that is a different story. Make a judgment call, work with it or withdraw your services.

Filing status issues are important, and the client should not refuse to answer pertinent questions. Altho sometimes we do get involved in some really "intrusive" questionning to determine the correct status.

This is not a cut or dry issue, sometimes clients just can't answer a questionnaire or maybe they are embarassed to answer. Yes, some will blantantly (sp) refuse to answer, then you make the determination whether to withdraw your services, others just don't understand sometimes.

Sandy

[Gene V]

Client age

This may not pertain to the original question, but speaking of client age.

In Oregon the tax form has a place for your date of birth, also if I EF, my tax software requires the date of birth. So I never have any problem getting my clients date of birth.
The only problem I have is getting my clients to fill out the organizers, one interesting things, they always bring there organizers with them to there appointment, mostly unfilled and still seal in the envelope.

[Bees Knees]

In Oregon the tax form has a place for your date of birth, also if I EF, my tax software requires the date of birth. So I never have any problem getting my clients date of birth.

Minnesota also requires the date of birth for both the taxpayer and the spouse. Minnesota also requires tax practitioners who do more than 5 returns to EF.

[Gretel]

Scanned

I hope I will not have to do this on my seminars in September and October. I am totally against being scanned. Comes pretty close to having a chip under your skin and you will not be able to buy anything unless you are scanned.

I have my clients fill out a questionaire (only those who want it and new clients get it) but since they often can not discern what applies to them they go through every single line putting an answer down and then I feel a little embarrassed because of this unnecessary burden. I gladly work with them on the questionaire, only a few do it by themselves anyway.

[Chief]

Getting personal information from client

I have often wondered what I would do if a client would not reveal personal information like date of birth, marital status. I had one woman but her husband revealed that information. Tfhe wife was critically ill and died before the return was filed. He had power of attorney and signed the return one day before she died.

Thank all of you for your responses. I have learned from them.

[Unregistered]

I also attended the NATP conference in Minneapolis, and while I have nothing to do with the national organization, I am a chapter officer and know why they went to scanning, (which I did not really like either).

There is a valid reason though. Providers of CPE credits must keep accurate records as to who attended educational sessions. If the provider does not, the provider could lose their ability to provide CPE.

Especially when there is a long seminar (the NATP conference was 4 days, with a max of about 28 credits available) it is easy for someone to just fill out the sheet saying that they attended all sessions and turn it in the last day. With 500-600 attendees, it is impossible for anyone to know if they actually attended any classes.

By scanning in, they know who attended. If you left early, you got scanned out, and didn't get CPE for the class. If you stayed to the end, you did not have to be scanned out.

Anyone who honestly filled out their CPE sheet and turned in should not be opposed to being scanned. Not as sinister of a process as you all may believe.

[Gretel]

Opposed

But I am opposed no matter how reasonable the explanation.

At our seminars they have you sign in each session morning and afternoon. There are ways to deal with this problem but of course it requires people. May attendees have to volunteer to do some of the additional work.