How to calculate AMT NOL

[Anne EA]

I have a client who has a 2009 NOL which we are carrying back to 2005 under the special rules for 2008 and 2009. Most of the loss was carried forward from 2008. In 2005 he was subject to alternative minimum tax. Now the IRS wants me to send a worksheet showing the AMT NOL calculation for 2005. My software does not support this calculation. I have called three different numbers at the IRS and they say there is no worksheet.

I appreciate any information you have or any source that explains in plain English how to prepare the worksheet.

Thanks.

[appelman]

How to calculate AMT NOL

It'll be a user-created worksheet. Start with the Line 12 instructions on p. 3 of the instructions for Form 6251. Don't try it when you're tired or in a hurry! (Isn't tax preparation fun?)

[appelman]

How to calculate AMT NOL

Also look at the Line 17 instructions on p. 5 of the instructions for Form 1045.

[OtisMozzetti]

My software does not support this calculation.

...

that explains in plain English
...

This is a common problem; a lot of tax professionals take the approach that if software doesn't handle the work then they don't get into the issue.

The reason that software doesn't handle the work directly, not unless you enter the result of calculation, is that it isn't at all common nor at all profitable for the software maker to automate the process.

You're an EA apparently. EA's are supposed to know about the AMT and about NOL's. It will probably take a somewhat long time to go through the manual spreadsheets, based upon the IRS instructions. I hope that you will get paid for the time! It does indeed make sense that if an NOL is going to change 2005, and there was AMT paid during 2005; then there's going to be a need to decide what the NOL for AMT purposes is supposed to be.

EA in California

[luke]

In defense of Anne EA

(not that she needs my defending her...)
I think her post was a VALID one - how many times do we have that particular situation (NOL changing AMT)? - she was only looking for "help" to get to worksheet requested by IRS! I am also an EA but would have to do research to create such a worksheet!

[JG EA]

One Worksheet

http://community.intuit.com/assets/attachments/0000/6229/AMTNOLAform350.pdf

[Anne EA]

Worksheet

Thanks for the worksheet. That's exactly what I was looking for.

[SFBOB]

Thanks JG EA I am working on the same thing.I have not finished my calculations as yet, however after talking to NATP, my understanding is that if you carry 2009 tax year loss back to 2005,[the forth year] there will be no addition to AMT incomeiIn year 2005. Thanks a bunch for the work sheet.

[JG EA]

Anne & Bob

You are welcome. I just typed in AMT NOL worksheet in google and there it was.

Thanks JG EA I am working on the same thing.I have not finished my calculations as yet, however after talking to NATP, my understanding is that if you carry 2009 tax year loss back to 2005,[the forth year] there will be no addition to AMT incomeiIn year 2005. Thanks a bunch for the work sheet.

There would be no additional AMT income in that year, but you still need to recalculate the AMT NOL to see if you can take the loss??? I have to relearn this each time so this is in the form of a question.

Line 12 instructions: "The ATNOLD is the sum of the alternative tax net operating loss (ATNOL) carryovers and carrbacks to the tax year, subject to the limitation explained later....Figure your ATNOLD as follows."

So if in refiguring Form 6251 for that year by carrying back the AMT loss - you have to take the new figures to form your AMT limit for the carryback year, and if any is left carryover to the next year and so on.

[MAJ]

JG EA to the Rescue....

You are welcome. I just typed in AMT NOL worksheet in google and there it was. .

**** those Turbo Tax, Quicken, Quickbooks people... Show-offs..

Kudos to those Google people for knowing Everything..

Now, whose going to take the worksheet and convert it into a SS and post it up here.???

Yea.. I wouldn't use it that often either.... But it's always helpful!!