Blank 8109-B Tax Deposit Forms

[Black Bart]

Every once in a while I need a blank payroll tax deposit form for a new customer who doesn't want to sign up for EFTPS and wants to make a deposit before receiving his coupon books. Those blanks are gettin' a bit scarce since IRS wants everybody to go electronic.

I wanted to get a stack of them to keep on hand and tried the 800-829-3676 forms number -- they don't handle 'em and referred me to 800-829-4933 (Business Services). That rep said he could only send eight blanks at a time (I said send 'em). He said to write (no calls) here and they were allowed to send out 25 forms (I wrote for them).

Internal Revenue Service
National Distribution Center
1201 North Mitsubishi Motorway
Bloomington, IL 61705

Many of you probably already know this, but this is for those who don't and, like me, wish to remain in the quiet calm of the less-stress Stone/Paper Age as long as possible.

[S T]

Yes Hard to find these forms

It has been a few years now that the 8109 B forms are hard to find.

I do encourage almost all t/p to sign up for EFTPS - makes my life easier for sure, and there seems to be good tracking. Just have to remember to file the EFTPS payments a couple days in advance, not at the last minute - not sure what we are going to do when they "make the 8109B form obsolete" I have one client that just refuses for electronic, so he will have to make a decision pretty soon, ---

Just a way of the times??? Not even the Banks like processing the forms and seems like some of the banks have discouraged.

Sandy

[ChEAr$]

Last time I talked with someone in the know at IRS, about a month and half ago, he said
that the blue coupon would be obsolete as of Dec 31st and everybody, that's EVERYbody
must use EFTS.

[S T]

Time to move Forward

Harlan,

If your info is correct, and the fact we can't obtain those "8109B" forms, time to move forward and sign on with EFTPS or other source, regardless of how much "our clients" resist.

Thanks for the "heads up" - I will have to alert my one client that refuses "electronic" most all for payments - I have t/p on electronic forms filing, but not payment.

Sandy

[Uncle Sam]

8109 Coupons

That's everyone that goes over the $ 2500/qtr threshhold.

So if you're UNDER that, you can still use coupons.

[S T]

Obtain Coupons

Uncle Sam, do you have a source on how to obtain the 8109B coupons? I only have a "less than 10 forms on hand" in case of emergency.

I am having some difficulty in obtaining the forms, as BB mentionned, and also I having a "larger issue" with BANKS accepting. I have been advised by several t/p that their bank will no longer accept the deposit at the "Branch" via coupon and t/p check

Any insight you can provide would be really welcomed

Thanks,

Sandy

[Black Bart]

End of paper.

ChEAr$ Last time I talked with someone in the know at IRS, about a month and half ago, he said
that the blue coupon would be obsolete as of Dec 31st and everybody, that's EVERYbody
must use EFTS.

Apparently the Paper Age is dying faster than expected (like that movie "Day After Tomorrow" -- the freeze-fossil effect is catching all us dinosaurs). Even at $2,500, not much point in doing it halfway, so guess I'll call IRS about signing my guys up for EFTPS (no idea how -- all mine are paper).

...I have been advised by several t/p that their bank will no longer accept the deposit at the "Branch" via coupon and t/p check

This is what will really kill all of it off. Once private business quits handling or starts charging extra for a service, it can't last long.

[AJsTax]

Form 8655

Look into using form 8655 , reporting agent authorization for all your clients. If you have more than 5 to do it is recommended.
With this form signed and filed you can do all the work for a client using your own signature pin and have a signed form allowing you to do the EFTPS.
It is one more paper and number to keep track of, but does simplify things a little.

A great many banks have refused to take the coupons anymore, but nearly all of them offer an online portal to make the deposits through them rather than through the EFTPS. I guess some would rather trust the bank's computer rather than the US government, imagine that!! ;-)

[Black Bart]

A. J.

Look into using form 8655 , reporting agent authorization for all your clients. If you have more than 5 to do it is recommended.
With this form signed and filed you can do all the work for a client using your own signature pin and have a signed form allowing you to do the EFTPS...

Don't understand about the "recommended for more than 5 clients." I checked the form and it looks like I have to get one signed for each client -- right?

Can the taxpayer just send payment himself if I get him a PIN number (or whatever)?

Can you use a POA for the same purpose?

Thanks.

[Uncle Sam]

8109 coupons

The address given in Black Bart's 1st post is the address I have on hand for requesting blanks.
The last time I sent a request was August 2007.
So things might be different now and more difficult to get.

[gkaiseril]

The IRS site has an information form only available. This form has a cover page that provides instructions about this information form and references for additional help and links to additonal IRS web pages.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8109b.pdf

"If a taxpayer or tax practitioner needs copies of blank Forms 8109-B, a request for blank copies must be made in writing on company letterhead"

"Taxpayers and authorized representatives may obtain Forms 8109-B with the taxpayer’s name, address, and Employer Identification Number (EIN) entered on the forms by going to a local IRS Taxpayer Assistance Center or by calling 1-800-829-4933."

"These requests must be mailed to the National Distribution Center at:

Internal Revenue Service
National Distribution Center
1201 N. Mitsubishi Motorway
Bloomington, IL 61705-6613"

[AJsTax]

Don't understand about the "recommended for more than 5 clients." I checked the form and it looks like I have to get one signed for each client -- right?

Can the taxpayer just send payment himself if I get him a PIN number (or whatever)?

Can you use a POA for the same purpose?

Thanks.

If you want the clients to each do their own e-filing of returns they will each have to get a pin number. For EFTPS each has to get a log in. The 8655 gives you permission to do it all and gives you a pin to use for all electronic filings of forms 941, etc. The payment of deposits is separate from the filing of the actual forms, but 8655 gives you permission to do both.
I am not highly experienced at either, still learning how to implement these things in an office that lives on paper returns. I usually try to set up the new stuff and learn how in my own little practice, then take it to the other office.
We are being pushed to more and more electronic filings. Is it bad, not really, but a learning curve for most of us.
If you use software to file forms 941, etc. then the RAF (reporting agent file) number allows you to enter one pin to file all the returns instead of having to change it for each client. How soon will we be required to e-file employment tax forms? I don't know, but it won't be long now that the IRS has been given permission to allow it. I still see many of those forms that are not signed by the paid preparer even though that is required.
Sorry so long for such a simple question!!
OH, the POA gives permission to represent, yes, but does not give you a electronic signature pin.

[Black Bart]

...The 8655 gives you permission to do it all and gives you a pin to use for all electronic filings of forms 941, etc. The payment of deposits is separate from the filing of the actual forms, but 8655 gives you permission to do both...

This is the part I don't get. I pulled up a form 8655 and it lists only one taxpayer at the top to fill in name, address, and so forth. Then asks for my name, etc. So, I don't see how this form would could give me permission to do multiple clients.

Are you saying ALL forms for ONE customer or ALL forms for ALL customers? Do I get a separate 8655 for each client?

[Nashville]

Liability

My customers must do the paying. I don't want any part of being a paying agent, or to have their PIN #, or ANYTHING that authorizes me to be involved in the payment process for anyone other than myself. This includes signature authorization on a client's bank account.

IRS is like lawyers -- if the primary person responsible is judgement-proof and they can't collect, the next tactic is to find someone who CAN pay who was ever-so-slightly remotely involved in the responsible error. Then, if they are not remotely involved in the error, the next target is to find someone who had the CAPABILITY of becoming involved, whether they actually did or not.

A logger fells a tree on a farmer's fence, cattle get out, and an automobile runs into a cow. The driver's lawyer doesn't just come after the logger, who may be totally broke and can't pay damages. He also comes after the farmer for having cattle, the sawmill for contracting the logger, the lumber company, the fence contractor, the highway dept, anyone.

Same way with IRS. The only difference is the burden of proof is on the party they come after.

[Black Bart]

My customers must do the paying. I don't want any part of being a paying agent, or to have their PIN #, or ANYTHING that authorizes me to be involved in the payment process for anyone other than myself. This includes signature authorization on a client's bank account.

I agree with this. I don't really want to be responsible for paying their taxes for them either. But don't we have to get that form 8655 filled out and sent in order to be able to file their 941s electronically for them as paid preparers?