Off-topic: Census worker run-in

[ChEAr$]

I'm not going to answer the race, dob questions though.

Just to be sure and answer the "sex" question with "YES!"

[Bees Knees]

Excuse me for being blunt but I am somewhat shocked at the logic of this thread. We as tax professionals understand the need to ascertain a client’s name, address, social security number, age, and occupation in order to carry out the task of filing a correct income tax return and comply with the tax laws of this nation. And we are not even working for the government. We are private citizens hired by taxpayers to gather this information. Granted, the taxpayer is not required to hire us. But even if they self prepare their own tax return, we understand the need for them to disclose personal data on their tax return…information that many low paid government employees have access to.

Why is it so hard to understand that there are other laws besides the income tax laws that require citizens to disclose personal data to the government through some means, such as a census? It seems somewhat hypocritical to be working in a profession that requires us to collect personal data on other people on behalf of the government, and then complain when this same government requires us to disclose personal data on ourselves.

[AJsTax]

You "rack" a shotgun. It is a soul fulfilling sound and a real attention getter.

No home is complete without a nice Mossberg 500 12 gauge pistol grip. Adds to any decor and makes a perfect gift

Humph! And all these years I thought when I racked my pump gun I was putting in the holder in the window of my Pickup truck. I always thought that when I worked the action I was pumping it! Learn something every day.
Reminds me of one of my favorite oops! from a movie. James Bond is standing on a cliff with the bad guys shooting targets with a shotgun and you hear the guy behind him pump the action. Only the guy was holding an over/under shotgun which does not make that noise! very classic mistake, but yes, the noise gets your attention. :0)

[Brian EA]

[QUOTE=Bees Knees;

Why is it so hard to understand that there are other laws besides the income tax laws that require citizens to disclose personal data to the government through some means, such as a census? It seems somewhat hypocritical to be working in a profession that requires us to collect personal data on other people on behalf of the government, and then complain when this same government requires us to disclose personal data on ourselves.[/QUOTE]

Now that the smoke is cleared let us enlighten those folks who refuse to comply.
I am also a census worker.
thanks
brian

[Uncle Sam]

Census Worker Run-In

Here's an e-mail I received from my Congressman regarding cooperating with the Census Bureau in answering their questions:

I strongly suggest you all read it - and the last poster is correct - we request clients to divulge to us confidential information. We should respect the Census Worker's duty of doing their job in collecting information to better provide services to us as citizens.

Dear Friends,
According to recent published reports, New York is one of the states in great danger of losing federal representation in the next redistricting due to a lackluster participation in the U.S. Census. With a loss in Congressional seats comes a decrease in federal funding. This means less money for New York's roads, schools, senior centers and state aid programs. These are extremely important issues for the people of the Bronx, Rockland and Westchester Counties, and for all of New York State. And it could all be changed by stronger participation in the Census.

Filling out the Census takes 10 minutes. The 10 questions takes up as much of your time as watching one-half inning of baseball. You can even fill it out between innings. It is inconceivable that a choice between 10 minutes of your time and funding for your local senior center is a difficult decision to make. Fear of privacy is often cited as a reason to not participate - especially among young adults - however, this is a case of misinformation rather than valid concerns. Census information can NOT be shared, even within the federal government. If someone within the Census Bureau shared your input with anyone - including another government agency - that worker faces up to five years in prison.

New York State cannot afford to receive a smaller piece of the federal pie, as it struggles to dig out from a major budgetary crisis. Our localities are facing similar crises. We need to fund hospitals, job-training centers and schools. Remember that funding for such essential programs has to come from somewhere, and if not in federal aid, it could hit each and every New Yorker in their pocketbooks. Areas with the most undercounting could lose up to $3,000 per person in federal funding.

New York's influence in Congress would continue to wane with the elimination of two more Congressional seats. Regardless of who sits in those seats, the more representation in Congress, the greater the ability to provide leadership in Washington for New York's needs. The seats lost by New York will be gained somewhere else. Growing states such as Arizona are poised to increase their seats and thus will wield more power and influence over federal policy in Congress.

Census Bureau officials worry that Latino communities will be discouraged from participating in the census count due to their outrage over Arizona's new immigration law. The Latino communities of New York are responsible for a significant amount of New York's population growth in the last ten years, potentially enough to withstand the population losses experienced upstate. As the Census Bureau begins its door-to-door canvassing, participation with the Census workers is vital. Do you want New York to have a greater say in national policies, or do you want to see Arizona gain more influence? The ability to decide lies in the hands of New Yorkers.

After all, isn't all of that worth 10 minutes of our time?

[veritas]

Losing representation

was the only part of the congressman's post I agree with. That's all the census was supposed to be about.

Giving money back to the state after the feds siphon off their chunk for senior centers so the representatives can buy your votes?


Please!

[Black Bart]

Posted by Brian EA

quote=Bees Knees;

Why is it so hard to understand that there are other laws besides the income tax laws that require citizens to disclose personal data to the government through some means, such as a census? It seems somewhat hypocritical to be working in a profession that requires us to collect personal data on other people on behalf of the government, and then complain when this same government requires us to disclose personal data on ourselves

Now that the smoke is cleared let us enlighten those folks who refuse to comply.
I am also a census worker.
thanks
brian.

Personally I think citizens have a right to deny certain information to insulting, intrusive, and ignorant government employees (present company excepted) with whom they take issue (maybe screen census folk for minimum common sense?). And to do so without being labeled unpatriotic or asked to leave the country. As to hypocrisy, what about IRS constantly demanding our help/cooperation while promoting FreeFile to the max?

And yes (to also go with the flow and inject a dash of politics) I know they need good, accurate data in order to enforce the policies mentioned (bilingual education, affirmative action quotas, CRA/Fannie Mae housing loans for the uncreditworthy) that they embrace, but I don't feel obliged to aid and abet them.

Identity theft is generally our main concern (it wasn't a problem in 1790) and, yes, we know there are disclosure rules and penalties for census-takers, but we also know that criminals don't care about rules.

Posted by Uncle Sam
...Do you want New York to have a greater say in national policies, or do you want to see Arizona gain more influence?...

The latter, if at all possible, thank you.

[veritas]

Tiger

is a program where the census bureau gives information to marketers. It omits names and addresses but release all other information such as income and marital status. They release the information in what is called census blocks which is 200 or fewer people.


How private is that?

[Bees Knees]

Data gathered by the IRS when we file income tax returns is far more personal than any data gathered by the census. Data gathered by Social Security when we file W-2s for each employee is far more personal than any data gathered by the census. Data gathered by a State Unemployment Agency when we file payroll tax returns is far more personal than any data gathered by the census. And yet we continue to choose to do a job gathering personal data for the government.

As for not liking some of the laws and programs that census data is used for, where do you think the money comes from to fund those programs? And yet we continue to choose to do a job that helps the government collect those funds.

It’s like choosing to work as a getaway car driver for a bank robber, and then complaining about all the increasing crime and violence.

[GTS]

Census

I considered it my duty to fill and submit the census, but don't understand the "need" to know whether I own, rent or lease my house, so I left that data and B-dates off, and answered "American" on a nationality qstn. But, while some think the census as non-intrusive, no one has mentioned the twin law-the American Community Survey (ACS), which I was supposed to fill out and submit. That survey sent to selected folks with the census, and also required to be filled out under threat of a $5000 fine, asks such intrusive qstns as: How much do I make?, do I own my home?, how many bedrooms?, how is it heated and what's the cost?, am I married,? how many times?, do I have mental/emotional issues?, what's my job?, what are the job tasks?, how many years at the job?, when do I leave in the morning?, how many people drive with me?, and how long does it take to get to work?....I did not send this in. I received a couple calls, and they finally said I would be listed as non-compliant. I then wrote my House Rep, my two Senators, House Speaker, and the two party leaders from the House and Senate for my party affiliation, and told them this ACS was unacceptable. I also told them I did not and will not send it in. I've received one letter from my House Rep that was a form letter saying how inportant the census is, and didn't even address my ACS issue......

[Black Bart]

...As for not liking some of the laws and programs that census data is used for, where do you think the money comes from to fund those programs? And yet we continue to choose to do a job that helps the government collect those funds.

Years ago I was in the audience of a Little Rock tax seminar when a CPA speaker stridently proclaimed "If you don't love accounting with all your heart and mind and soul -- you ought to get out of it! Point being that slackers were contaminating the water.

As it happens, I don't love accounting that much. Still, it's enjoyable work with no heavy lifting -- I trained for it, think I do a fair job of it, and it pays well. Of course my entire working life is all wrapped up in the tax preparation profession (it's not a temporary job that I daily "continue to choose to do") and, obviously, since I have to make a living I can't afford the luxury of resigning on principle for either that Little Rock fanatic or a seeming contradiction in logic.

The collection plate we pass funds not only programs we don't like, but roads, schools, hospitals, and police protection as well. Depending on how far you want to extrapolate, taxes on all professions (as well as retail sales), while funding schools, etc., also partially pay for some terrible programs passed by those "democratically-elected representatives." Yet, people continue to work and sell and pay those taxes.

Anyway, I think I can stand a comparison test of morality with the government representatives I've seen lately. I wonder if Charlie Rangel has considered resigning on principle?

[Super Mom]

We had some elderly people robbed by people claiming to work for the census, beware!

[BHoffman]

As for not liking some of the laws and programs that census data is used for, where do you think the money comes from to fund those programs? And yet we continue to choose to do a job that helps the government collect those funds.

It’s like choosing to work as a getaway car driver for a bank robber, and then complaining about all the increasing crime and violence.

My job is not to help the government collect funds from taxpayers. My job is to protect my clients from being punished by the government for noncompliance. My job is to make sure, to the best of my ability, that my clients are neither over- nor under-feeding the Beast. I'm not driving a getaway car, and I'm not in the business of promoting government spending because I prepare tax returns for a living. I'm in the business of preparing documents for people who recognize the government's power to take everything away from them unless they comply.

Let's not kid ourselves. The Census is primarily used to gerrymander voting districts. I dutifully filled out our form correctly and completely and mailed it in timely.

[DaveO]

I think much of the resistance to the census is due to the intrusive “long form” used in the 1990 census. That thing had a bunch of very personal questions. It even asked about your homes plumbing (indoor or outdoor toilet). One of my apartment dwelling friends reported that he owned 3000 llamas. I filled out the occupant, age and sex data but refused to complete the rest of it marking “refused” through the offending questions. I received a rather nasty letter from the census and a copy of the 6 question “short form” back in a month or so.

Not to turn this back into a tax related post but how many of your business clients bring in those nasty business census forms for you to do? They ask for a bunch of information that even the business owner would have to spend several hours to comply with. When I was CFO for a publishing company we got the business census form in and I spent several hours completing it making sure all the different classes of employees and wages were correct. The next year I got an even longer and more detailed one. I pitched that one and every one since in the trash.

I did a few then the client balked at me billing for it. When they bring them in now I say “Are you sure you want to pay me to fill this out for you?” I haven’t done one in years now.

[JohnH]

Regarding the business census forms - I fill them out and it ordinarily only takes me a couple of minutes. But I sure hope nobody in government is using any of the info I provide to actually make any important decisions...