Off-topic: Census worker run-in

[Bees Knees]

Going beyond head count is nothing new...

The United States Census is a decennial census mandated by the United States Constitution. In 1954, Congress codified earlier census acts and all other statutes authorizing the decennial census as Title 13, U.S. Code. Title 13, U.S. Code, does not specify which subjects or questions are to be included in the decennial census.

It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people. On numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287. In 1901, a District Court said the Constitution's census clause (Art. 1, Sec. 2, Clause 3) is not limited to a headcount of the population and "does not prohibit the gathering of other statistics, if 'necessary and proper,' for the intelligent exercise of other powers enumerated in the constitution, and in such case there could be no objection to acquiring this information through the same machinery by which the population is enumerated." United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).

The first census began more than a year after the inauguration of President Washington and shortly before the second session of the first Congress ended. Congress assigned responsibility for the 1790 Census to the marshals of the U.S. judicial districts. The First Federal Congress established a special committee to prepare the questions to be included in the first census. Virginia Representative James Madison recommended at least five of the initial six questions. The six inquiries in 1790 called for questions on gender, race, relationship to the head of household, name of the head of household, and the number of slaves, if any. Marshals in some states went beyond these questions and collected data on occupation and the number of dwellings in a city or town.

The 2010 questionnaire is one of the shortest in history, and comes very close to the length and scope of inquiries asked in 1790. Everyone in the household answers seven questions: name, gender, race, ethnicity, and whether they sometimes live somewhere else. The head of household answers how many people live in the residence, whether it is a house, apartment, or mobile home, and provides a telephone number for Census workers to follow up if any information is incomplete or missing.

[Bees Knees]

Other interesting facts about the 1790 census…

On February 2, 1790, Samuel Livermore of New Hampshire lamented that the proposed question about profession would be hard for his constituents to answer, since some had three or four professions, depending on the season. Connecticut Representative Theodore Sedgwick, on the same day, wondered why the questions were not extended further — "The state of society could be ascertained, perhaps, in some degree, by observing [the] proportions."

The final bill, Statute 2 of March 1, 1790, provided that census marshals and assistants be appointed. The marshals were directed to “cause the number of the inhabitants within their respective districts to be taken; omitting in such enumeration Indians not taxed, and distinguishing free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, from all others; distinguishing also the sexes and colours of free persons, and the free males of sixteen years and upwards from those under that age.”

The act directed that the names of the heads of families be recorded, the number of white males sixteen and older, the number of white males under sixteen, the number of white females, the number of all other free persons, and the number of slaves. Failure to cooperate with a marshal or assistant was punishable by a $20 fine.

[AZ-Tax]

Political topic in disguise that does not belong on this board

This topic is political in disguise and has no business on this board. As a member of this board over the years I have seen emotions fly to the point where one of more members has boycotted another member or members tax related questions due to that member(s) political opinion which is the exact opposite of what this board represents.

[Bees Knees]

Well, maybe, but I have had my tax clients ask me about the census, and their questions had nothing to do with politics. We are constantly asked about matters that pertain to governmental functions. Sometimes the only contact people have with people who deal with government laws and regulations is when they see their tax preparer.

[JohnH]

Most of my conversations with clients and others about the census are focused on attitudes & ideas that transcend poltical affiliation. I'd be just as negative about the thing if George Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmny Carter, Richard Nixon, or Barack Obama were in office. It isn't about politics, it's about where to draw the line on the government's right to intrude into our private lives. I filled the darn thing out just because I didn't want someone knocking on my door, but I didn't like it. Still don't.

And yes, I'd be pretty ticked off if I omitted info and then some government employee showed up & said they'd just "ask my neighbors" if I didn't give them their answers. Besides, how would my neighbors know if my answer was right when I entered "occasionally" beside the word "sex"?

[DTS]

Bees,

Thanks for sharing the Census facts. The were interesting.

Also, my intent of this thread was not to get into a political discussion about anything, but I did title my thread "Off-Topic", which the moderators allow us to use for non-tax issues of interest to some participants, within certain parameters. Those with no interest in that thread can avoid it.

It looks like everyone was respectful of these parameters while sharing their differing thoughts and doing so in a civil manner with each other.

[thomtax]

Besides, how would my neighbors know if my answer was right when I entered "occasionally" beside the word "sex"?

Are you bragging or complaining? Or did this refer to your dealings with your neighbors?

LT

[AZ-Tax]

Ok people, I am in as long as you don’t

hold against me on what I say… Political? Isn’t Veritas quoting MN Rep Michelle Bachmann with “During WW2 data was given to the federal government to help round up Japanese Americans”? I find that hard to believe a census worker is going to talk to your neighbor. We are talking a census worker not the IRS. I dont recall any law that your neighbor has to cooperate with a census worker regarding his or her neighbor. None of my neighbors would discuss me and I would not discuss them to any census worker. Officially I am "independent" only because of the BS that both Dems and Repubs try to push as fact. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but are not entitled to their own facts".

As you know here in AZ we have that new tough immigration law. You know the only state in the US that is taking the US LAW of mandating legal citizenship or get out seriously. So if don’t like our census LAW, locate a country where they don’t have a census and move and your moving exps may even be deductible. Problem solved!

[JohnH]

You'll have to ask my neighbors about your second question.


Your first question reminds me of a split scene from Annie Hall:

Alvy Singer's Therapist: How often do you sleep together?
Alvy Singer.................: Hardly ever. Maybe three times a week.

Annie Hall's Therapist: Do you have sex often?
Annie Hall.................: Constantly. I'd say three times a week.

[veritas]

Nope I wasn't quoting

hold against me on what I say… Political? Isn’t Veritas quoting MN Rep Michelle Bachmann with “During WW2 data was given to the federal government to help round up Japanese Americans”? I find that hard to believe a census worker is going to talk to your neighbor. We are talking a census worker not the IRS. I dont recall any law that your neighbor has to cooperate with a census worker regarding his or her neighbor. None of my neighbors would discuss me and I would not discuss them to any census worker. Officially I am "independent" only because of the BS that both Dems and Repubs try to push as fact. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but are not entitled to their own facts".

As you know here in AZ we have that new tough immigration law. You know the only state in the US that is taking the US LAW of mandating legal citizenship or get out seriously. So if don’t like our census LAW, locate a country where they don’t have a census and move and your moving exps may even be deductible. Problem solved!

Rep. Bachmann.


I don't mind the census if it was used strictly for the original intention. That is an enumeration to apportion representatives by the count. That is what it was intended for nothing else.

Courts interpet things many ways such as african americans were personal property.

[ChEAr$]

At an early age I got interested in genealogy, and a dear old Southern lady down the street,
allowed me use of her microfilm reader to look at the few reels she had. Here was a gold
mine back in the 1950's of information and I'm glad that in 1860 just before
The War of Northern Aggression such details were included showing my great grandfather's
age, birth state, race, occupation (90% were farmers back then, all over the country), and
number of slaves, dollar amount of real estate and of personal property. Those years,
1850,60,70 and 80 gave a very valuable picture of our ancestors' lives back then.

Result is I know all my ancestors back to 1880; 95% back to about 1820 and maybe 50% back to 1790. Is this a great country, or what?

Census reels and nowdays Social security death index can help so many people with
their ancestry. Naw, no royalty in my family, at least not since about the 11th century,
But I am proud of my Anglo/Scottish/Welsh/Irish forebears. All due to the U S census.

[ChEAr$]

Great solution to pesky problems! I always wanted a sound system close to all entries of the house with the sound of a shotgun being pumped or whatever that action is called.

Well, yes. But you're assuming all would be perpetrators actually know how to read!

[veritas]

Still haven't gotten over it

Here was a gold
mine back in the 1950's of information and I'm glad that in 1860 just before
The War of Northern Aggression such details were included showing my great grandfather's
age, birth state, race, occupation (90% were farmers back then, all over the country), and
number of slaves, dollar amount of real estate and of personal property. Those years,
1850,60,70 and 80 gave a very valuable picture of our ancestors' lives back then.

a copperhead myself

[DTS]

hold against me on what I say… Political? Isn’t Veritas quoting MN Rep Michelle Bachmann with “During WW2 data was given to the federal government to help round up Japanese Americans”? I find that hard to believe a census worker is going to talk to your neighbor. We are talking a census worker not the IRS. I dont recall any law that your neighbor has to cooperate with a census worker regarding his or her neighbor. None of my neighbors would discuss me and I would not discuss them to any census worker. Officially I am "independent" only because of the BS that both Dems and Repubs try to push as fact. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but are not entitled to their own facts".

As you know here in AZ we have that new tough immigration law. You know the only state in the US that is taking the US LAW of mandating legal citizenship or get out seriously. So if don’t like our census LAW, locate a country where they don’t have a census and move and your moving exps may even be deductible. Problem solved!

Wow!

First, I did not make up what the worker said to me. She said what she said. Sorry this irritates you so much.

Second, no one questioned your political affiliation, as we have many on the board, but none was mentioned, except yours.

Third, nobody mentioned the new AZ law that was signed into law last week...not one person, except you.

And last, I'm not moving anywhere! I like it just fine here, so I won't be moving just so that I can deduct moving expenses.

[veritas]

Alexander Hamilton

from the federalist papers.

"Within every successive term of ten years a census of inhabitants is to be repeated. The unequivocal objects of these regulations are, first, to readjust, from time to time, the apportionment of representatives to the number of inhabitants, under the single exception that each State shall have one representative at least; secondly, to augment the number of representatives at the same periods, under the sole limitation that the whole number shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand inhabitants."


I wish I could go back and help the framers with some of those pesky things in the constitution which clearly meant one thing to them but have somehow come to mean something else. "General Welfare" would be one instance. The commerce clause would certainly be another. Lastly I would very much appreciate the feds giving back half of our state that they own.