Lack of deceased t/p records

[DTS]

I need some guidance on how to proceed regarding notices that are coming from the Fed and CA to file returns for a deceased t/p from '05 on (she passed in '08). Her affairs were so badly mismanaged, money stolen, etc. Balances due from '04 were never paid.

Records, including bank statements are practically non-existent from '05 going forward. Heirs did not pay bills or deposit rents for the t/p, but there is an excellent track record prior to '05 regarding rents, rental expenses, social security, etc. Items reported were always done through bank statements and copies of cancelled checks. Investment accounts were not an issue after '03. I do not want to get into a guessing game to file these returns, but don't how else to report these items.

What is the usual way to proceed in situation like this?

Thanks,

D

[taxea]

You don't say why records were not kept after 05. Also don't say who is responsible for the thefts, etc.
I wouldn't touch it. Let the next of kin deal with the IRS.

[DTS]

You don't say why records were not kept after 05. Also don't say who is responsible for the thefts, etc.
I wouldn't touch it. Let the next of kin deal with the IRS.

Three children and not an ounce of good in them. Thieves. They looked at her like a lunch wagon. Rents collected were pocketed, bills not paid, etc.Children are nowhere to be seen.

Not taking this on is not an option for me. Do you have something that can help me other than not taking this on?

[ChEAr$]

Three children and not an ounce of good in them. Thieves. They looked at her like a lunch wagon. Rents collected were pocketed, bills not paid, etc.Children are nowhere to be seen.

Not taking this on is not an option for me. Do you have something that can help me other than not taking this on?

There is no will I take it; therefore no executor or absent a will, a personal rep appointed by the court. Therefore, why is not taking this on not an option?

Can't help but be curious on this point.

[S T]

Curious

Also curious, since I do deal with small estates and I have incurred a lot of hours of billable time that I was paid for

Who contacted you regarding the current and past filings?
Is it a Probate, a non-probate Over limit - Trust - Will
Guess you might need a retainer?


More info would be better

Sandy

[DTS]

There is a court appointed trustee. She contacted me because I had prepared this client's returns for years. She has gone through her property and there are no records, statements, etc. to be found. Requests for statements from the bank, county tax assessor are not coming in and the pressure is on from FTB and IRS.

Edit: What add'l info can I post that will help?

D

[DTS]

taxea

Not taking this on is not an option for me. Do you have something that can help me other than not taking this on?

This response to your post was short and sharp. It was not intended to be. I was being called away and rushed when I posted it and I was not trying to be nasty.

[Gretel]

If you don't have any records, you don't have them. A good faith estimate is all you can do same as IRS would do. I would POA to get records from IRS and then use 2004 figures for rental income and expenses as good faith estimate for 2005. Maybe leave repairs off if there were any in 2004. Depreciation should not be a problem.

I also would call the agencies and get their input and advise.

[S T]

Court

Well the Court Appointee can ask, beg, etc all they want, YOU have no obligation.

The Court Appointee has to retrieve the records and produce them or facsimile.

Dennis, you are off the hook

You, as I see it, have no obligation in this, as long as you did not have a "fiduciary capacity" with the taxpayer that is now deceased.

Could be good money for you if you wanted to pursue, but you would have to have all fees and charges approved.

Sandy

[Lion]

Rep

You can have rep sign POA so you can get info from e-Services. Then, give rep a list of what she must obtain for you: bank statements, mortgage statements, property taxes paid, etc. Let her do the leg work to get copies. If the rep is not personally responsible or a beneficiary, she might not want to pursue these returns. If the recourse is to the children that inherited and they're as bad as you say, they maybe let the IRS and FTB chase the kids for money!

[taxea]

If you have no records for the rents etc since 05 and you want to help...I would prepare a statement for the court and the tax agencies explaining what you know and have the person that brought this mess to you do the same. In the statement both of you should include as much identifying information on the relatives as possible. At the end of the statement ask the tax agencies how they would advise you to proceed.

If client didn't die until 2008 and the thefts etc have occurred or are believed to have occurred between 2005 and time of death someone might want to make a report to adult abuse unit in your county.

[DTS]

If you have no records for the rents etc since 05 and you want to help...I would prepare a statement for the court and the tax agencies explaining what you know and have the person that brought this mess to you do the same. In the statement both of you should include as much identifying information on the relatives as possible. At the end of the statement ask the tax agencies how they would advise you to proceed.

If client didn't die until 2008 and the thefts etc have occurred or are believed to have occurred between 2005 and time of death someone might want to make a report to adult abuse unit in your county.

Thanks for the good suggestions. The elder abuse issue is how the trustee came in and there are legal issues pending with the heirs that contributed to this.

[taxea]

Good to hear...don't think you can really do anything until the trustee is able to put together some records for each year.
I still would notify the taxing authorites of the situation, to get them to quit sending letters and include that you do not have a time factor that you can rely on right now.

[gkaiseril]

The trustee could ask for transcripts from the IRS and see if the IRS has any data.

[Matt Sova]

Hand 'em a shovel

Give them a shovel and tell them where to dig. Anything in the coffin they can have.

I am kidding of course.

I tend to agree with most everyone here, you do not have a responsibility to this, it's not like you do work for half of this persons family. I think that if it was me I would tell the court appointed rep to find someone else.