Working for Nothing

[PIGLEE]

The kids of today, are learning how to live off the system, not how to do it on their own. I had a single mom, years ago, trying to get by, and trying to be self supporting. She thought she had found a job, doing nursery work at a church, making 100.00 a month. She came to me crying not knowing what to do. She wanted to take the job, but by taking the job, it would put her over the limit for free child care, which she would have to pay over 400.00 a month. She asked me, don't they want me to be self supporting?

By the way did you know that if you are in the 15% tax bracket, 5% state, and self employed, you would have to earn, after expenses, at least 12,400.00 to have 8,000 spendable cash.

There is something wrong with our system, I say let welfare be welfare.

[Bert73]

Don't get me started on this topic - Seriously...
Who said the one earing $37k should be putting some money away? Am I missing something? How could he/she? With 2-3 kids - That's be impossible.

I have a client - He is on SSDI but I am convinced he's working some where - He has to be! The wife bartends and claims what she makes - No W2 - No 1099 - They usually end up with EIC. Public assistance for the kids health benefits. Braces, whatever they need - Free & on me! They have a nice home - He bought a Harley - They've been to Vegas and Bahamas...

Me? Work like a dog - No Harley - No Vegas - No Bahamas. Burns my arse..... it does...
Oh.. He has a nice corvette too... What am I doing wrong?

I am convinced the more I make the less I have -- IF I stop working I should be well off!
This client is the perfect example... Am I jealous... Of course I am.... Sometimes I want to follow some of my suspect clients around to see what they are doing and turn them in!!!!

Venting over.. Waiting for them to come this year with the tighter EIC due dillegence... Great!

I dont think I ever said that the guy with 2 children and with 15,000 income could sock any money away. I think you are confusing the two scenerios.
For years my anger with the uneager wage earners snowballed and I have taken a new perspective on this issue, I will do what is best for me and my family. Thats it. No apologies or excuses. We earn our six figure income with sweat, tears and sometimes blood (papercuts)

[BHoffman]

Agree with Bert. Choosing to live on government cheese might seem like such a good idea, as though a "free" nickle is worth more than an "earned" dollar. I also think there are generations who feel that jumping through all of the hoops to get on social assistance and stay there is their "job". Find some way to be in some group that is unemployable. That is sad. It's also sad that people become so dependent on government assistance that they are afraid to even try to move away from it for fear of losing benefits and subsidies. That is like enslavement more than entitlement.

[BP.]

government cheese

OMG that's my catch phrase too. Some (younger I guess?) people don't get the allusion. They used to line up across the street from my office at the time.

[BHoffman]

I'm old enough to be looking down the barrel of retirement, but young enough that there sure isn't going to be any Soc. Sec. or Medicare funds in my retirement future Tail end of the Baby Boomer generation.

[BP.]

and sometimes blood (papercuts)

Slept with tiny bandaids affixed to some digits last night.

[RitaB]

BHoffman, I remember a joke

A client told me this years ago:

Jesus came to town one day, and everyone was flocking around Him, excited and anxious to get near Him. That is, everyone except one guy who, when Jesus came close to him, backed up and said, "Don't touch me! I'm on disability."



Edit: Didn't mean to ignore posters after BHoffman, but a client was in here yakking, and it held up my post.

[Nashville]

Incremental Effect

Aside from the obvious work ethic connotations which attach to the subject, we have been trained to think in terms of "tax brackets" for tax planning.

Our conventional approach is to consider the effect of a deduction, conversion of income to capital gains, earned income effect, and similar approaches. We can, with reasonable ease and accuracy, tell someone in a 25% tax bracket, 5% state bracket, and 7.65% incremental FICA, that they can only bring home $623.50 of the last $1000 they earn.

This "tax bracket" approach is breaking down on us for situations of low income and new refundable credits. Fortunately, not many low income earners are interested in tax planning. We think in terms of incremental rates as being the tax on small, bite-sized measurements of progressive income. The total tax effect on income, including refundable credits, now range over a very broad swath of income.

And it doesn't even stop when EIC phases out. Phaseouts continue up the income ladder, perhaps beginning with EIC and Retirement Savers' Credit, ranging upward to phaseout of personal exemptions. The cause of this can be traced to the origin of these bold new tax breaks in congress, who must phase them out at higher incomes to salvage revenue and not offer these to the "evil rich" who don't constitute a large voting bloc.

The conclusion to this perhaps circalocution is as follows: Our conventional ideas about incremental tax rates rising more precipitously at high incomes is history. In today's world of refundable credits, the incremental tax bite between $15K and $35K is GREATER than the tax bite between $100K and $120K. This defies logic and common sense.

And yes, I believe national work ethic is sacrificed. Much to do with the way we raise our children, because people seem to have this work ethic or they don't. Those who have it continue to pursue their work irrespective of losing these tax giveaways.