Adobe PDF

[Gretel]

You PDF gurus: What is the difference in the usefulness of the document if I 1. save a documents once downloaded or 2. print it to PDF?

By the way I learned a hard lesson with my 2008 Entity tax returns. ProSeries doesn't support any state tax returns for Entities. So, I filled in the forms online and used "save as" to save them to my clients folder. This was the first year that I didn't print the tax returns for my files anymore. Surprise, surprise. The saved State tax returns are all blank!

[Koss]

PDF Functions

The "print to PDF" option should work well for almost any program that has it built in, whether it is your tax software, or QuickBooks, or something else, such as the Open Office word processor.

"Print to PDF," if it is part of the program and it is configured properly, will usually save the completed documents, properly filled out, into a PDF file that cannot be changed or edited.

Using "fill-in" PDF forms is a whole different ball game. Most, but not all, of the "fillable" PDF tax forms on the IRS website will allow you to fill out the form, and then save it with the data that you entered. But some older PDF forms on the IRS site do not support this function. For PDF forms that come from state tax department websites, it will vary quite a bit from one site to another. To make matters worse, saving the filled-in data may not be supported by the version of Adobe Reader that you are using.

And even if you can successfully save the form with the data that you have entered, the file that you save is not protected from editing. So it's not an ideal process.

The solution you are probably looking for, Gretel, is an inexpensive PDF generator application such PDF reDirect Pro. It is available as a download for about $20.00.

PDF reDirect Pro also offers a "freeware" consumer version at no cost. But I highly recommend the paid version. I think the paid version is available as a 60-day trial...

Feel free to e-mail me if you want more info or help.

BMK

[taxea]

I have found that many of the fill-in pdf forms can be printed but not saved to the HD.
My way around that is to open it in Acrobat Pro version 6 or higher. This will save it to the harddrive as well as print it.

[gkaiseril]

The IRS paid big money to Adobe in order to make all the Federal tax forms savable by Reader.

If you only have free Adobe Reader, you by default can not save completed forms. The PDF form has to have special rights applied to the PDF by an Adobe server product before the completed form can be saved by Reader. Some state provide saveable form, but many do not.

If you have the printer that creates PDF as part of your tax software, you can print the forms to the PDF printer but you will not be able to change them because they will be like printed paper.

If you have purchased the Standard, Professional, or Extended version of Acrobat, then you can save the filled-in forms whether the Extended Reader Form Rights have been applied or not.

[JohnH]

Lots of good information in this thread. I want to also throw in a plug for pdf Factory from FinePrint. It used to come bundled with ATX but they quit providing it a couple of years ago for some reason and now they offer a clunky substitute. pdf Factory provides the ability to password protect, create documents, rearrange their order, etc. It installs just like another printer on your computer and it's very easy to use - you just select to print to it rather than your regular printer.

Cost is about $50 - here's a link.

http://www.fineprint.com/

[Koss]

Not exactly...

gkaiseril wrote:

If you only have free Adobe Reader, you by default can not save completed forms. The PDF form has to have special rights applied to the PDF by an Adobe server product before the completed form can be saved by Reader. Some state provide saveable form, but many do not.

This may have been the case at one time, but for most of the forms on the IRS website, you can indeed save data in the form, even if you are only using the free Adobe Reader.

I have Adobe Reader 9.2.0, and I just confirmed that I can save filled in data on virtually any IRS PDF form for the current tax year, as well as 2008. Some of the documents from earlier years may have different rights and restrictions. And there may be at least one version of the free Adobe Reader, perhaps 8.x.x, that wasn't working properly, and limited some of these functions.

But in Adobe Reader 9.2.0, I can enter data into PDFs provided by the IRS, and I can save them, with the data intact.

I agree that this functionality is not predictable or consistent when it comes to websites operated by state revenue agencies.

Here's an article on the IRS website that tries to explain some of this:

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=98121,00.html

BMK

[Gretel]

"You PDF gurus: What is the difference in the usefulness of the document if I 1. save a documents once downloaded or 2. print it to PDF?"

This was my original question and I probably should have refrained from sharing my experience with the State PDF disaster.

So, my question remains. I know there is a difference in what you can do with the document but I forgot or might never have understood in the first place. Maybe we have a PDF Guru on board?

[gkaiseril]

I have Adobe Reader 9.2.0, and I just confirmed that I can save filled in data on virtually any IRS PDF form for the current tax year, as well as 2008. Some of the documents from earlier years may have different rights and restrictions. And there may be at least one version of the free Adobe Reader, perhaps 8.x.x, that wasn't working properly, and limited some of these functions.

But in Adobe Reader 9.2.0, I can enter data into PDFs provided by the IRS, and I can save them, with the data intact.

I agree that this functionality is not predictable or consistent when it comes to websites operated by state revenue agencies.

Here's an article on the IRS website that tries to explain some of this:

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=98121,00.html

BMK

I noted that the IRS forms could be saved by users with Reader because the IRS has enabled Extended Reader Rights for the form.

The OP, original poster, had the issue because a tax agency did not enable the Extended Reader Rights. See the Indiana IT 40 form for an example of a PDF form without the Extended Reader Rights. http://www.in.gov/dor/4167.htm.

[gkaiseril]

If you can save the filled-in form then the form fields could be changed at later date. If you print the filled-in form then it is like a printed piece of paper, the data in the form fields are not easily editable and the form fields will no longer exist.

Being able to save the form allows one to work on a form over a period of time and at different times.

[taxea]

Saving a fill-in form to use as a master is useful because you don't have to keep going on-line to get a blank whenever you need it.

I agree that IRS forms can be saved and will retain the info if Acrobat 9 reader is used. If you "save as" and give it a different file name, you will always have a blank master to use.

Many states, Hawaii included, can be filled in with Acrobat 9 reader, however other than printing a copy you cannot save to the HD and retain the info. Acrobat Pro 6 and above allow you to do this.

Hawaii has an excise tax. Businesses have to submit a GET "return" which can be filled in via pdf format. I have downloaded and saved the forms through Acrobat Pro and then input the client information to create a master. Each month I pull up the master, fill it out, save it and send it to the client.