Child with new SSN

[DaveO]

Just had an immigrant lady come in and explain that she has filed taxes claiming her child using an ITIN. The child now has a SSN and she wants to amend to get a refund. I'm assuming that she is looking for the EITC she was denied when filing originally. She didn't have return copies with her so I can't say that for certain.

Anything special about amending for this purpose. I couldn't find anything specific searching the old posts on the board.

[erchess]

Proof

I would require her to bring me proof that the child was in the US and residing with her for at least seven months during the taxable year. I would also require her to sign a statement as to why her child did not originally have a social security number. Finally I would keep copies of everything she gave me and I would get and keep evidence to back up every statement in the EIC Checklists. And if she got tired of working with me and went to HRB it wouldn't break my heart.

[DaveO]

Thanks erchess, that's all real good backup to have. I have to wonder if she didn't balk at what HRB charges for an amended return so ended up at my desk.

[Jiggers]

and your fee?

Thanks erchess, that's all real good backup to have. I have to wonder if she didn't balk at what HRB charges for an amended return so ended up at my desk.

And your fee is lower?

I would have her balk at my fee also. Especially if she is getting $X,XXX more dollars in refund.

[erchess]

Fees

Remember that since her original return is not in your computer it will take you a little more effort to do her amend than it would have taken you to do her original return with EIC. Therefore the fee you should be charging her should be the total of what you would have charged her to do the return block did (and your fee should be more than theirs because of your greater expertise and level of service) plus around 50 bucks for the amend plus whatever it costs you cya and a surcharge for the fact that this return could easily come back to haunt you in the form of an IRS investigation of you.

Block will only charge her for the amend because their CYA is built in to all their charges and besides they have less need to cover because they are in good with the IRS.

I don't know why she came to you instead of going back to wherever and you probably need her to document that for you as well. It could be as simple as where she went is hard to access in the offseason, due to limited hours, driving distance, or both.

The bottom line is that if she went to Block and your fee for the amend is not four or five times theirs then you are seriously undercharging her for your time and for the potential headaches she brings.

[WhiteOleander]

Remember that since her original return is not in your computer it will take you a little more effort to do her amend than it would have taken you to do her original return with EIC. Therefore the fee you should be charging her should be the total of what you would have charged her to do the return block did (and your fee should be more than theirs because of your greater expertise and level of service) plus around 50 bucks for the amend plus whatever it costs you cya and a surcharge for the fact that this return could easily come back to haunt you in the form of an IRS investigation of you.

Block will only charge her for the amend because their CYA is built in to all their charges and besides they have less need to cover because they are in good with the IRS.

I don't know why she came to you instead of going back to wherever and you probably need her to document that for you as well. It could be as simple as where she went is hard to access in the offseason, due to limited hours, driving distance, or both.

The bottom line is that if she went to Block and your fee for the amend is not four or five times theirs then you are seriously undercharging her for your time and for the potential headaches she brings.

How do you know the level of expertise at the Block Office? I have 15 years and have been an EA since '97. And please tell me who to contact at the IRS since I am "in good" with the IRS. That would sure come in handy. ????

[S T]

How did

How did HRB ever get into this post anyway- I thought we all had decided we were not going to "bash" HRB" as we have several if not many valuable posters from HRB Offices, and so as not to exclude, several other posters as well from other Franchises or that are EA's or CPA's. Enough already!

It is all supposition, there was nothing in Dave O's OP on HRB. It could be HRB, it could Jackson Hewitt, it could be Liberty, it could be the "guy" down the street, that doesn't even have a license, it might have even been an EA or a CPA. It just does not matter.

What matters, is the correct way to approach this, do it the right and proper way, if it is legitimate.

Dave O, you just need to obtain the information from the client, then determine the right course of action to take after you have the "facts and circumstances" to see if the t/p qualifies to amend and receive the EITC. You already know that there is a "due diligence" list to meet filing for EITC credit.

White Oleander, I am sorry if you were offended by this posting, as you are a very valuable contributor to this Board!

That is my perspective

Sandy

[WhiteOleander]

Thank you. I wasn't so much offended as annoyed. I will concede that some very poor work can come out of a Block office. But, I have seen all levels of work come from all different types of offices, as I'm sure everyone on this board has.

And it is true that the OP never said the client originally went to HRB.

[erchess]

Apology

I can see how the many good preparers at HRB would feel slighted by what I wrote so I'm sorry.

All the big tax and accounting companies and all our professional organizations have contacts at the higher levels of the IRS. It was not my intention to say that Block has more than other large firms. I'm in favor of contacts with the White House and with members of congress and congressional staffers involved in oversight of the IRS but it bothers me for reasons I can't quite articulate for anyone in our community to have dealings with the IRS. If I faced any other interaction with a regulatory agency I would seek an adviser who did not have a history of discussions with the agency about how to make the regulatory process go more smoothly for all concerned. I certainly would not seek a representative whose right to represent me came from the Agency in question. And yes, I'm troubled by the fact that my credential (EA) came from passing an IRS Exam.

By the way my impression of the IRS and NC Department of Revenue is very much up from what it was a few months ago. I am prepared to concede that most individuals in these organizations are both fair minded and competent. I still think they are my opponent in the taxing process and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to discuss taxes with one of these people outside of a dispute involving one specific case.

[OtisMozzetti]

prices for amended returns

Therefore the fee you should be charging her should be the total of what you would have charged her to do the return block did (and your fee should be more than theirs because of your greater expertise and level of service) plus around 50 bucks for the amend ...
..
Block will only charge her for the amend because their CYA is built in to all their charges and besides they have less need to cover because they are in good with the IRS.
...
I don't know why she came to you instead of going back to wherever and you probably need her to document that for you as well. It could be as simple as where she went is hard to access in the offseason, due to limited hours, driving distance, or both.
...

There is no evidence in this thread that she went to Block for the originally filed return, or even to any paid preparer. It says that she did ask Block how much she would be changed for an amendment.

If an amendment is going to be based somewhat upon cost of providing the service, I think the fee should, as you noted, include the time required to recreate the original return plus even more than $50 for the labor-intensive process of assembling paper copies and writing the explanation of changes on the 1040X (and on the state amendment, if any which there isn't in this case).

Something else to keep in mind is "value-based pricing", or "charging what the traffic will bear". She is qualifying for a big refund, remember. It is of course improper according to Treasury Dept. rules to charge any "unconscionable" fee. A contingent fee is acceptable when seeking a refund on a previously filed return, but a contingent fee is not allowable when originally filing a return.

[DaveO]

Sorry, didn't mean to stir up the store front tax office argument. I have no idea where she went to get the original returns done; she didn't have them with her. I opined in my reply that she may have gotten a quote at HRB. I know they are around $240 for an amended return at the premium office down the street. Within a mile of our office there are offices all three of the big store front preparers. The language barrier was such that I had a hard time understanding what she wanted at first. (Anyone with poor English skills is immediately assumed to be my client here) I will very carefully document the residency issues and obtain some third party verification if I feel it’s warranted. Thanks all for the advice.

[luke]

otis

A contingent fee is acceptable when seeking a refund on a previously filed return, but a contingent fee is not allowable when originally filing a return.
I learn something NEW almost every time I come to this board....