I have been contacted by a firm that wants to charge me for lists of people who have had tax liens filed against them in whatever time frame and geographic area I specify. Presumably I would contact these people and offer representation services. My initial reaction is that this has to be a new low in "ambulance chasing" in our profession and then I found myself wanting to do it. Could this be an ethical and cost effective way to obtain clients?
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Well...
I'd say it's pretty certain the "pennies on the dollar" crowd does this. I always warn clients that as soon as the lien is recorded, they can expect a lot of mail. And most confirm that it happens.
So, it's probably legal but it's not a crowd I wish to run with... -
T Y outwest
I don't know how effective I would be at getting clients away from the golden promises of the shysters or how much money I would make since I would end up doing installment agreements for most of them.
Any other reactions anyone?Comment
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Go to the courthouse
and get your leads.Comment
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Well
Presumably if it is ethical to go to the courthouse myself and contact people then it is ethical to pay this guy 20 or 30 cents per lead depending on whether I get a phone number for the contact and I would certainly prefer to do the latter.
That doesn't answer the two questions I have. 1.Would this be ethical? 2. Given the existence of the "pennies on the dollar" crowd and given that for most of these people installment agreements would be the best I could do, would I make very much money?Comment
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Aren't tax liens a matter of public record?
You might could get local ones from your county seat courthouse without going through anybody, although it's probably more trouble than buying lists.Originally posted by erchess View Post
Keep in mind that almost anything like that in the mail nowadays is bogus and will want a large sign-up fee in advance (plus some of them stick you on automatic recurring bank debits plans). As to whether or not the lists are worth anything, who can say until you try it? I don't see anything unethical about it -- just the question "Is it worth anything?"
P.S. I read years ago about scammers who ran ads: "JOBS IN TEXAS -- SEND $10" and supposedly made a killing. What'd they send back? A photocopy of Dallas want ads.Comment
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Nothing unethical
Unless you charge a big up front fee and don't do anything.
But that would hardly be in character for you.Comment
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T Y B B
Another good point. Another point is that he admitted that all he does is get the lien information online and then get the phone number from one or the other of two online directories he uses. If my county does not have its records online then he can't help me. He will call me tomorrow one way or the other. Since I have concerns about the DNC list I would end up mailing anyway.
One theme that seems to be running through this thread is that no one thinks it is inherently unethical for me to contact people based on the fact that the IRS has filed liens against their properties.Comment
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If I was trolling for new clients I would much rather send a letter to anyone filing a new corp or LLC. Those are listed in the legal notices in the paper once a week. At least with a new business you have a chance of getting paid. If you have neighborhood associations were you live write a tax law update article and send it to them for publication. You may pickup calls from people looking for more information.In other words, a democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it.
Alexis de TocquevilleComment
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Dave
That's a very good thought also.Comment
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Not unethical, but...
Liens are published in a general circulation periodical, with a little checking around you could find which one is used by the lien filers in your area. There's a daily business journal in Portland where all the liens are listed, and that's where all the lawyers and really hungry tax people troll the list. There are a lot of them working that circuit so it's not a slam dunk that you would get any value for this list.
DaveO is right, a better source for good clients is new business owners. In the P.R.O., the state Corporation Commission registers new businesses, dba and Corps, LLCs. The list can be obtained for a nominal fee from their office. The county tax assessor has a list of new home owners that can be a source of new clients too, since a home purchase is often a life altering event that sends people to a tax pro for the first time."A man that holds a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way." - Mark TwainComment
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Contact
I received my 2nd email today for IRS Tax Liens. They must have access to a list from the Enrolled Agents Association or some other source that has my email on file
I don't believe this is something that I would be interested in, however, I do like some of the other ideas posted, such as contacting the new business filings, etc.
Many years ago I tried the new Homeowner's list, however, what I found was that the lists were several months old, at the time, and also contained "all" recordings, not just new home purchasers, but also refinances, etc. So that did not work so well.
SandyComment
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List
The IRS gives out information on all Enrolled Practitioners to those posing as potential customers and also to those who want to provide continuing education. I don't know if they will give us up to people who say they want to sell us other goods and services but I also don't think there is much to keep anyone from claiming to be a potential customer and making multiple requests.Comment
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I see nothing ethically wrong with purchasing these leads if you think you can help the taxpayer for a reasonable fee. If they're not interested in your mailing (or whatever), they'll simply "toss" it with other mail they aren't interested in. However, if it makes you feel like a "lesser professional", I wouldn't do it.Comment
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