Proseries missing required form (again)

[Mike Mac]

I know we have some MN tax preparers who use Proseries who frequent this board. I just thought I'd share the dialog I had on Proseries chat-line regarding their lack of support for a form required to efile in MN. The form was new in 2007 but with quite a few complaints from last year I thought they would have supported for 2008.

It would be great if MN preparers would go to the "My Proseries" website and request that they include the form by using their "Feedback" function. It only takes four or five minutes,

Thanks,
Mike Mac


You are being assisted by Chat Agent. Can I have your name please.
11:02 (Mike's Tax Service)
11:03 Will proseries supprort form MN M1NC this year? It is a required form that flows to the MN M1M. The form was new for
11:04 the 2007 tax year but you did not support it. The professional community is counting on it to be part of the package for 2008
11:06 If it is not planned to be included in a (near) future MN update can you explain why not.
11:09 Anybody alive out there??
10:09 We do not have information on the avaiability of forms aside from what can be found online on ProSeries.com.
11:10 when I searched the site nothing was found. What is my next step to find an answer?
10:11 The actual addition of forms to the program depends on many things... one of them is the demand from our clients. Give me a couple of minutes to see if I can find something for you.
11:16 OK thank you. I would hope that another of the factors in determining your form sets is the fact that this is a REQUIRED form in order to e-file and MN charges a $5.00 penalty for not efiling when you could. I don't believe me using a software company that does not comply with the required forms is reason enough to avoid the penalty. Last year when I reported this, I found out that your sister company does have it in their forms set.
10:20 Lacerte normally does carry many of the forms ProSWeries does not... there is just more available in that program
10:21 I can't find anything stating it is to be included, but there are various requests in for the form to be added as an enhancement to the program
11:22 Ok thank you. I would expect that to be done since this is a professional program offered.
10:22 The instructions I found say to print off the form from the MN. website, then to override the areas on ProSeries which need adjustmets.
10:23 This has been in the database since 2006 at least... it is the oldest reference.
11:24 I know the work-arounds but you are forgetting about the fact that we CANNOT efile a form that we print off from the MN website!!
10:27 It is just something which has not been added to the program possibly due to other issues taking priority on the programming level, or no agreement has been reached to add it to ProSeries due to the availability of it in Lacerte.
10:27 Normally, you can use Lacerte to efile issues as this one since you are a ProSeries user... they will let you file it as Pay Per Return
11:30 I do not want to use two different software products. That is why I purchase a professional version rather than use Turbo Tax or Proseries Basic. If I use Lacerte this year info will not go to proseries next year. Can you please pass this conversation up the chain to see if we can get some results?
10:32 I will submit it as a new enhancement request, and you can also contact the same department from within ProSeries by going into the Help Center, and the bottom right corner of the program there is a "provide feedback" link... both ways get the issue to the same department.
11:33 Thank you.
10:34 No problem... thank you for contacting us and pointing this out.
Info: Assistance provided by Chat Agent Click here to receive a full transcript of the conversation.

[erchess]

As a practical matter, you might find it cheaper to pay $5 per return than to fight this, but off hand I can think of three resolutions.

1. Sue the company. The form is a required form and you would be asking that they implement it or pay your fine and in addition pay your legal bill and throw in a time and trouble fee for you of say 100K. They will probably very quickly agree to implement the form or pay your fine and cover your legal bill in exchange for you giving up your demand for extra money because they would know that if they let a jury get hold of them they could end up badly abused.

2. I think you're wrong about your software not being an excuse. If the Department of Revenue did not put out warnings to avoid this company then it has to accept that a preparer using Pro Series cannot efile with them.

3. Get with the State and other preparers to demand implementation of the form. The State could perhaps find ways to fine the company.

[FEDUKE404]

Question FOR Proseries

I thought for a state to "accept" returns prepared by any commercial software that the software had to meet certain minimum requirements before it would ever be approved for use.

How in the world can the MN software not include a required form in the software??

FE

Disclaimer: I've not yet had the pleasure of preparing a MN state return.

[erchess]

At the risk of being told I'm wrong,

I think the issue at hand is a problem primarily for tax professionals who are in MN. I don't see how the MN DOR could think that they are going to fine a preparer who is not a resident of MN. OP states that the form he wants is required only in order to EFILE the State Return. Trouble is that as a TP in MN he would face a $5 charge for each paperfiled MN return he did. I don't know but I am guessing two things. First I am guessing that MN is way down the list in terms of number of Pro Series Users in the State and second I am guessing that aside from preparers in MN and close to the border in adjoining states, most Pro Series users are content to have the few MN Returns they prepare be mailed in. That would explain why from the company's point of view there has not been a mass client uprising. If they had more users in MN than any other State they would have the desired form in their software.

[Beth]

MN forms missing-again

Mike is right- MN is slow to adopt federal changes, and adjustments have to be made on this form to state returns.

I find the best way to make suggestions and get results is to use the feedback forn after loggingin to Intuit.

I added form M1NC as a request to the list.

Those of us in MN would appreciate those of you who use ProSeries to request this form!

[Bees Knees]

If you filed Schedule M1NC last year, the return is wrong.

From MN website:

What is Minnesota Schedule M1NC?

Definitions used to determine Minnesota income tax are based on the Internal Revenue Code as of February 12, 2008. Since that date, several federal laws have been enacted that contain a number of provisions that affect tax year 2008.

For federal purposes, those laws apply, but Minnesota has not adopted them for the current tax year so you need to use Schedule M1NC to add back or subtract the income in regards to the Minnesota return. Schedule M1NC is a form used to adjust taxable income when federal tax laws differ from Minnesota tax laws.

Note: If the Minnesota Legislature fully adopts the federal changes during the next session, there is no need to complete Schedule M1NC. On the other hand, if you file your Minnesota return with Schedule M1NC attached and the Legislature fully or partially adopts the federal changes, you will then be required to file an amended return to adjust your return.

Interesting that the revised instructions as of March of 2008 for the 2007 M1 says:

A bill signed into law on March 7, 2008 eliminates the need for Schedule M1NC and creates two new additions. What this means:

• Disregard any instructions to complete Schedule M1NC….

This is not an excuse for ProSeries. What it is is in all likelihood, if you file Schedule M1NC for your clients, eventually the return will be wrong and you will have to amend it. If you do not file Schedule M1NC for your clients, it will temporarily be wrong until March of this year when most of the M1NC adjustments will no longer be required, but possibly some will.

What does this mean? Any MN return you file before the legislation meets to adopt the federal changes WILL BE WRONG. Period.

[Mike Mac]

MN Income Tax Newsletter dated DECEMBER 2008

Bees,

Your footnote that relates to the 2007 Form M1 instructions is interesting and accurate but are not directly related to the problem facing us for the 2008 returns. Take a look at the Income Tax Newsletter dated Dec 2008 that most MN preparers likely got in the mail last month (and is available online). It clearly states that, as of today, the form M1NC is a required form. The most likely add-backs for most of us would be the tuition and fee deduction taken on the federal return followed by the $250 educator expense deduction. Although it is impossible to predict what our legislature will do, our state budget is deep in the hole and it is easy to imagine a scenario where they may not adopt all the changes to federal law.

As you stated Bees, any way we do this we've got a chance of getting it wrong. I do not want to hold up transmitting MN state returns awaiting some legislative action and then the Dept of Revenue making needed changes. In past years, the retroactive changes to MN tax laws have always been one of the first bills debated by the tax committee. This is not the case this year and, when searching the legislative website, I have not found a bill introduced to do so yet.

In the mean time, I'll likely find a way to jury-rig the M-1M form to include the add-backs and still efile. But with the amount we pay for professional software, we should not have to take that risk. My main point was not to debate when or if MN will come in compliance with federal law but to ASK A FAVOR and have fellow MN Proseries users go to their feedback page and tell them we need and want the M-1NC form. From past experience, we already know that the "squeeky wheel gets greased" when working with Proseries.

Thanks for the feedback.

Mike

[taxea]

I believe the State is responsible for providing the form so it can be included in the program. Hawaii has forms that, if used, the return cannot be efiled. that may be the reason the form is not included. taxea

[BOB W]

Ultra Tax has the Form and it is ready to go.

[Mike Mac]

MN has form available

taxea,

MN has/had the M1-NC form available in plenty of time for Proseries to support it. As other posters and myself have noted, other professional software companies have the form as part of their formsets including Proseries sister company Lacerte. Last year when I raised a fuss over the very same form I got a call from an Intuit sales rep offering me a free copy of Lacerte. I don't want a free copy of another software product. What I want is a professional version of the software I am paying a professional price for.

Mike Mac

[mblatour]

Mike,

I appreciate the update on the happenings of your "quest". Last year I wrote in to Intuit/Proseries about this and I will again this year. I have about 1/2 dozen teachers that this affects, and several students. I'm pretty small right now (about 60 clients), but this creates a headache that I don't want to deal with. I believe I did the same thing with "rigging" the M1M in order to push forward with the return. I explained the situation to each of my clients and basically gave them the choice to deduct it off of MN's return and take it on the Federal, or to wait till after March to see if the legislation passes. And then of course I offered to amend the returns later if they wanted to get the additional MN deduction, when the legislation does pass.

I like the ProSeries software, but I seriously did consider switching before this season started. I had so much going on in my regular life that I wasn't up for dealing with retraining myself on something new. So, I guess I just deal with this issue again this year and move on. Here's to hoping that ProSeries will make the change!!