PIN # for paid preparer 941 signiture

[John of PA]

Does anyone know how it works to get a PIN # to sign a 941and/or 940 as a paid preparer, which I understand we now must sign starting in 2009.

[erchess]

Software

Would it not depend on your software?

[S T]

Form 941

Are you talking about Part 4

Part 4: May we speak with your third-party designee?
If you want to allow an employee, a paid tax preparer, or another person to discuss your Form 941 with the IRS, check the “Yes” box in Part 4. Then tell us the name, phone
number, and the five-digit personal identification number (PIN) of the specific person to speak with—not the name of the firm who prepared your tax return. The designee may
choose any five numbers as his or her PIN.

Sandy

[John of PA]

941 Part 6

I am referring to the 941, Part 6 where the paid preparer can sign. I never signed these before but we now have to. It ask for a SSN or a PTIN. Do we just make up any PTIN (if we do not want to give our SSN)?

[Lion]

Ptin

I have a PTIN from the IRS to use instead of my SSN. It starts with P and is used on any tax returns I sign as paid preparer. I got it the first year the IRS offered it.

[BHoffman]

Form W-7P

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7p.pdf

Here's a link to form W-7P. That's what you use to get a PTIN. I got one a long time ago because I have to sign lots of AZ state things that require either my SSN or a PTIN. Didn't want my SSN floating around out there.

[John of PA]

Same PTIN as Efile 1040 PTIN

Can we use the same PTIN for signing the 941, as we use for our Efile 1040's?

[S T]

Ptin

Yes you can use the same PTIN, only one is assigned to you.

Sandy

[taxxcpa]

Ptin

Yes you can use the same PTIN, only one is assigned to you.

Sandy

You will, however, need a totally different PIN to e-file Form 941. Form 8655 must be submitted for each client if you plan to e-file 941s.

[S T]

Efile Payroll Forms

Taxxcpa

Do you efile any of your clients form 941's?

I have set mine up for efile through Quickbooks, and so far so good, but have not set up any of my clients.

Sandy

[taxxcpa]

e-filing Form 941

I have filled out the Form 8655 and e-mailed it to a client to sign and return to me so I can mail it to the IRS. I haven't e-filed one yet. I just recently went into the IRS e services site and added forms 940, 941,1120 and 1065 to the ones that I will e-file.

I doubt that I will be able to e-file any for the 4th quarter of 2008, but maybe for the first quarter of 2009. I have one client that tends to be late filing, but makes the tax deposits on time. If I can e-file it, that will prevent the late filing.

I've only e-filed 1040s, W-2s and 1099MISCs up to now.

[John of PA]

Thank You All

Thank you all, sounds like I can use the same PTIN on the 941 as I use to Efile 1040's. I personally have no plans to Efile 941's.

[BOB W]

E-Filing 941 & 940 saves me the time that it takes to print an extra copy of both forms, staple, mark an X for signatures, sign each form, choose the proper lable for mailing, address the envelope, fold and insert the forms, mail to my client and hope that they mail it to the IRS on time without getting a penalty for late filing. I have had clients that went on vacation without telling me and many other reasons (including the postal service misplacing it).

As I print out the client's copy(s) the ELF file(s) is/are created. With a click of my mouse they are filed. I also Arch Debit their payments by the due date. All this has reduced IRS letters for various 941/940 problems.

I have about 4 clients who have refused to sign any forms where anything "automatically" happens. As I am processing their Qtr Payroll reports I swear I'm going to raise their fee.

If you are a "Green" thinker, this works.

ADD: The same benefit you get from Tax Return e-filing is the same for 941 and 940.

[DonPriebe]

Confusing PTIN with PIN

Thank you all, sounds like I can use the same PTIN on the 941 as I use to Efile 1040's.

The PTIN and the PIN are two entirely different things.

A PTIN is a preparer identification number that you use in place of your social security number when you sign a return as a paid preparer. It's format is Pnnnnnnnn. You obtain it by filing a form W-7P. It is unique to you. Volunteer tax preparers in formal programs like VITA or TCE have a similar identification called a site identification number. It has the format Snnnnnnnn and is also entered into the PTIN box.

A PIN is any arbitrary 5 digit number that you or your client use to "sign" an electronically filed return. It is not assigned to you by any governmental authority, you simply make it up. It obviously is not unique. A PIN is also used by a third-party designee on a 1040 so the IRS can verify his identity in a subsequent phone call.

An e-filed 1040 requires the usage of a PIN by the taxpayer, spouse (if any) and generally by the ERO (unless it uses the older self-select protocol requiring shared secrets.) If the paid preparer chooses to use his own SSN, then there would be no PTIN used at all.

Homework - discuss the differences between EIN, TIN, and EFIN.

Extra Credit - The main difference between the "self-select PIN" and the "practitioner PIN" methods of e-filing is ...

(a) Who selects the PIN
(b) Who enters the PIN into the computer
(c) Both of the above
(d) None of the above

[Lion]

C?

C? You're a good instructor, Don. Teaching any courses this year? How about an on-line webinar? Now I'm second-guessing myself: B?