Expense Firearm

[thomtax]

A gun in a store behind the counter may be legal with a permit but that doesn't make it a business expense.

I don't believe any of the examples would be deductible because the firearm is something that would be considered personal whether or not used for the business. taxea

It may be personal, but look at how many other things are personal, such as decorations on the wall, a nice desk instead of a table top, music played in the office, etc. And I'll bet they are all deducted.

LT

[taxea]

thomtax...depending on the type of business what you stated could be considered ordinary expense and would be deductible. If on the other hand they are just for the owners enjoyment...you're right they would not be deductible. taxea

[JohnH]

This continues to be an interesting discussion. I think I'd deduct it, along with the cost of the permits, etc. Assuming the facts about the rough neighborhood are true, it meets the "ordinary and necessary" test to the same extent that a police officer working off-duty would be able to deduct his personally-owned firearm, nightstick, mace, taser, etc.

(Oh, and I liked the "cat burgular" question - very perceptive)

[taxea]

thomtax...the deduction is O/R for a policeofficer because it required in his job. Police Officers are sanctioned by their departments and the law to carry off-duty. I don't see the connection. Permit or not it is not an ordinary or necessary expense for a business person. Having a permit to carry is a personal thing. I maintain that this is the same thing as any other personal property that the IRS does not consider a "business only" item therefore not deductible. taxea

[JohnH]

I see your point, but I don't agree. Just like the police officer, the insurance agent has a permit and a valid business need for the weapon.

How about another example? I travel frequently in my business, and often to places I'm not familiar witrh. Is my GPS a personal asset or a tax-deductible business asset? If I use it primarily for business, even though I may also take it along on a vacation occasionally, am I denied a deduction for the GPS?

[taxea]

" I travel frequently in my business, and often to places I'm not familiar witrh. Is my GPS a personal asset or a tax-deductible business asset? If I use it primarily for business, even though I may also take it along on a vacation occasionally, am I denied a deduction for the GPS?"

I think the IRS would consider a GPS as a benefit to the business so O/R. If you also use it personally then the expense should be allocated with a percentage for business use.

A firearm is simply a personal safety issue since the client is not a firearms dealer or trainer. The client could carry mace, a piercing whistle, etc. The other side of this is consider that the weapon can be taken and used against the client. Has he considered that? Just a thought....taxea

[veritas]

Anything under a

.40 is personal. From there up is serious business.

[taxea]

veritas...you are referring to the GPS...yes? taxea

[thomtax]

thomtax...the deduction is O/R for a policeofficer because it required in his job. Police Officers are sanctioned by their departments and the law to carry off-duty. I don't see the connection. Permit or not it is not an ordinary or necessary expense for a business person. Having a permit to carry is a personal thing. I maintain that this is the same thing as any other personal property that the IRS does not consider a "business only" item therefore not deductible. taxea

taxea - Wrong answer to wrong person. I think you have me confused with someone else and are answering them, since I have not mentioned a police officer.

LT

[Bees Knees]

Bee's Knees,

I'm impressed. Did you find that 13-year old article via Google?

Mike

Yes. Even though the article is old, the court case citation is what makes it valid.

[Davc]

In many jurisdictions off duty police are required to be armed in public.

[Black Bart]

Ordinary and necessary

Many years ago my plantation owner employer bought a $1,000 Beretta over-and-under shotgun and instructed me to post it as "security expense." While he didn't say if he considered ducks a threat (think President Carter's "killer rabbit"), he maintained it was quite "ordinary" for his friends to carry such in their pickups and certainly felt it was "necessary" in his social circle ("I can't show up at a hunt with an $85 Mossberg!").

[taxea]

so sorry John H...that was meant for Thomtax and everyone else reading this posting. taxea

[BHoffman]

In this case, I think the gun should be written off. Would the client buy and carry it if not for his business need, or is he a hobby shooter looking for a write off? Does he keep a mileage log that shows he travels in tough parts of town? Crime statistics are available.

Completely agree with veritas. Under .40 is like writing off a chihuahua as security expense

[Zee]

I disagree with deducting the cost of a handgun for an insurance agent. If it's ok for an insurance agent, I would think a deduction would be permissable for almost any self-employed individual working in any public area. An insurance agent is no more at risk than a milkman, postal carrier, UPS Driver, Mary Kay representative, Tupperware rep, bible-thumper rep, political pollster, newspaper carrier, magazine salesman, etc.