Expense Firearm

[rkoethcpa]

I have a client that owns an insurance agency and deals with clients in a really rough part of town. He wants to purchase a handgun as protection when he needs to go to this area. He is going to follow all of the appropriate protocol in terms of licensing for his state. Obviously, he wants to write this off as a business asset. I haven't seen any explicit language to state that this is not allowed, although I am clearly uncomfortable with this. Has anybody dealt with this matter before and seen if the IRS would allow this? I was planning on making it a Listed Asset and applying a business use %, depreciating it over 7 years.

[Bees Knees]

This article http://faculty.lebow.drexel.edu/Cura...g%20199601.pdf seems to address your question and provides a few citations that might apply.

[rkoethcpa]

Thanks!

I would say that definitely covers it - thank you!

[DaveO]

I have deducted the cost of a rifle for a rancher used to control the prarie dogs on his ranch. Either the IRS didn't notice or didn't object. Then again it was only 1 rifle.

[erchess]

Different Trades

Dave the point is that probably most ranchers have need of a rifle for the defense of their herds from something, be it small rodents whose holes help cattle break their legs or wolves and coyotes who will eat the calves. On the other hand, most insurance agents don't go on business to dangerous areas where they feel safer packing heat.

I have to admit that I have a tendency to forget that ordinary and necessary are two different tests and not one test. I think after reading this article I understand the rule better than I ever have before. On the other hand, I can't think off hand of anything I have deducted for a client that suddenly seems questionable.

[JohnH]

Dave the point is that probably most ranchers have need of a rifle for the defense of their herds from something, be it small rodents whose holes help cattle break their legs or wolves and coyotes who will eat the calves. On the other hand, most insurance agents don't go on business to dangerous areas where they feel safer packing heat.

I have to admit that I have a tendency to forget that ordinary and necessary are two different tests and not one test. I think after reading this article I understand the rule better than I ever have before. On the other hand, I can't think off hand of anything I have deducted for a client that suddenly seems questionable.

I can think of something.
I'm still a little worried about food & vet bills for that "security cat" one of my Mary Kay clients asked me to deduct a few years ago. It made sense at the time - she said its job was to guard her inventory, and she had a note from something she heard at a seminar that said it was a valid deduction.

[taxea]

This doesn't sound like ordinary and necessary to the business. Does the client carry the weapon when not working? Sounds like a personal safety issue to me. I wouldn't deduct it as a business expense. I look at it like trying to deduct clothing that can be worn in public when not at work and therefore does not qualify. taxea

[ChEAr$]

It's both ordinary and necessary

This doesn't sound like ordinary and necessary to the business. Does the client carry the weapon when not working? Sounds like a personal safety issue to me. I wouldn't deduct it as a business expense. I look at it like trying to deduct clothing that can be worn in public when not at work and therefore does not qualify. taxea

for an insurance agent or rental agent to pack heat while collecting in certain neighborhoods.
It's for the safety of the money primarily, but also nice to have for personal safety.

Deduct it. (Section 179 for the piece.)

[taxea]

this is a quote from the resource that was posted earlier:

A handgun simply does not qualify
as an ordinary and necessary
business expense for an insurance
agent, even a bold and
brave Wyatt Earp type with a fast
draw who is willing to risk injury
or death in the service of his clients
... We regard such expense as
extraordinary .. .Indeed, petitioner's
arguments for deductibility
strike us as erroneous and just
plain nonsense.

I think the IRS would agree with this assessment.

I have learned over the years to think like the IRS in order to provide due diligence to my clients. taxea

[taxea]

PS to John H....did your client tell you that the "security cat" was guarding against rats or cat burglars????? taxea

[Mike Mac]

Bee's Knees,

I'm impressed. Did you find that 13-year old article via Google?

Mike

[ChEAr$]

Still disagree

If a shotgun under the counter in a convenience store is deductible, so is an insurance
or rental agent's heater.

[DaveO]

I think the problem in the court case was the fact 8 handguns were purchased and deducted. When I used to travel for business I carried a weapon for personal protection and recreation. It never ocurred to me to attempt to deduct it. I would certainly draw the line for my rancher client well ahead of 8 firearms.

Also, does the weapon clearly fit the stated purpose? Does the conveinence store owner have a short barreled 12 gauge or a Benelli trap gun? Does the insurance agent carry a concealable 9mm or does he want to deduct a Cattleman's Special in 44 mag? My rancher chose an AR-15 with a wide view low light scope. Perfect for coyotes, wolves, prarie dogs and such. Short, light and very accurate.

[ChEAr$]

Agree

I think the problem in the court case was the fact 8 handguns were purchased and deducted. When I used to travel for business I carried a weapon for personal protection and recreation. It never ocurred to me to attempt to deduct it. I would certainly draw the line for my rancher client well ahead of 8 firearms.

Also, does the weapon clearly fit the stated purpose? Does the conveinence store owner have a short barreled 12 gauge or a Benelli trap gun? Does the insurance agent carry a concealable 9mm or does he want to deduct a Cattleman's Special in 44 mag? My rancher chose an AR-15 with a wide view low light scope. Perfect for coyotes, wolves, prarie dogs and such. Short, light and very accurate.

The case cited involved a collector of weapons who thought he could write off one per year.

I'm no expert on guns, except I've fired several back during service time, but a snub
nosed 38 carried by a rental agent in "that" part of town seems to clearly meet the
ordinary and necessary test. After all, I just reviewed that definition in.................
The TAxBook(tm)!

[taxea]

A gun in a store behind the counter may be legal with a permit but that doesn't make it a business expense.

I don't believe any of the examples would be deductible because the firearm is something that would be considered personal whether or not used for the business. taxea