On record

[JG EA]

There are things I want to say that has been upsetting to me. Is there possibly a trend on this board and if so I want to go on record.

1. The trend of being of afraid of the IRS and doing unnecessay forms instead of reading whether it is required or not.

2. The trend of being afraid of the IRS and making clients sign more and more, fill out more and more, when the rules don't say it is required. (I happen to think my client's are honest unless I find out differently and I know I'm honest, but if I start requiring unnecessary documentation I think it is an affront to their dignity.)

3. The trend of thinking the worst of another preparer instead of thinking there is probably good reason something was done a certain way. And then wanting to turn them in? Read the statements of your organizations and you will probably find some kind of language that requires not putting down another professional.

Now having said this I will say that I have been guilty of all three, but I don't like that trend in myself either.

[taxea]

I resemble that but as I have said in other posts...sometimes it is good business practice to keep more detailed records than required. Sometimes it is because trying to pull something on the client. Sometimes it is just plain criminal. And sometimes it is because of experience. taxea

[BHoffman]

We do the best we can

I think folks on this forum are taking the time to research and ask questions so that would indicate to me that we are trying to comply and seek out clients who want to do the same. The forum can get overwhelming, I agree. Maybe I'm naive, but I still believe the IRS is out to get tax preparers who are committing outright fraud in order to gain clients, and that they are less interested in people like us who are trying to make an honest living by helping people report their taxes correctly and legally.

[David1980]

I've noticed recently a few more posts than previously suggesting tax positions based on ideals of "fairness" which are not supported in actual law. I imagine that happens every year around this time. I also noticed the same thing about excessive auditing of clients beyond IRS requirements. If someone wants to do the extra work and has clients who don't change preparers then that's there prerogative.

[DaveO]

I will always give my fellow professionals the benefit of the doubt. I know there are times that I have overlooked the obvious during times of fatigue or stress.

Most times I give my clients the same leeway but have learned that some will sit at my desk and tell one bald-faced lie after another. The CYA factor is becoming more important all the time. Some years ago I advised a client that I felt they were subject to a certain state tax program. They were adamant that said tax program didn't apply to them. I made a written record of the conversation and put it in the file. Now they are under audit for 5 years regarding that program. While I'm glad I have my notes I'd be happier if I had a signed waiver from them.

As to the IRS I find most individual agents to be good people doing a difficult and thankless job. There are some who hide behind the shield afforded by the bureaucracy of the service and see themselves as little demigods. When people can't be held individually accountable for their words or actions the lowest aspects of human behavior are expressed. Just observe comments on an unregulated internet forum, present forum excepted, to see this in action.

I've seen too many hapless taxpayers caught in the IRS bureaucracy with no idea how to get out. The rules are so complex and the willingness of the service to insist on the letter of those rules too unyielding for the uninitiated to have a chance of resolving their dilemma.

[ChEAr$]

I agree

There are things I want to say that has been upsetting to me. Is there possibly a trend on this board and if so I want to go on record.

1. The trend of being of afraid of the IRS and doing unnecessay forms instead of reading whether it is required or not.

2. The trend of being afraid of the IRS and making clients sign more and more, fill out more and more, when the rules don't say it is required. (I happen to think my client's are honest unless I find out differently and I know I'm honest, but if I start requiring unnecessary documentation I think it is an affront to their dignity.)

3. The trend of thinking the worst of another preparer instead of thinking there is probably good reason something was done a certain way. And then wanting to turn them in? Read the statements of your organizations and you will probably find some kind of language that requires not putting down another professional.

Now having said this I will say that I have been guilty of all three, but I don't like that trend in myself either.

with your comments. It's called 'paranoia' I think.

Of course we have to exercise due diligence and dot the i's and cross the t's, but I don't
think IRS "has it in" for all preparers, just the bad ones. I hope. After all, don't they
speak of us (the good ones I hope) as partners?

[Corduroy Frog]

Yes Indeed

I agree almost overwhelmingly with JFG, the coffee man...

It has become a sad commentary when a tax practitioner has to spend all of his time covering his butt instead of filling out taxes. The IRS speaking of practitioners as "partners?" is typical politically correct doublespeak. They are out to collect revenue, and having found it very difficult to collect from people with no money, they have come to expect more from tax preparers -- not only to penalize but also to extract more revenue from taxpayers.

One of the most prolific examples is the disclosure form 8875 which invites the IRS to audit the taxpayer. In my opinion, most likely this is the remedy of a gutless preparer who should not even take the position of the taxpayer to begin with. If you file these things, this isn't meant to be insulting, but why would you risk dragging the IRS and your client into a confrontation just for the sake of following regulations and executing additional paperwork?? For a position that is already untenable in your opinion??

I plan to continue spending most of my effort serving my clients with accuracy and service, and don't intend to look under rocks to find unreported income and lies. If I run into a situation where it is obvious there are irregularities and circumstances which do not stack up, I WILL raise questions and if he doesn't like it, he can go across town.

I have enough complications in my life without running a tax service spending its time and resources walking on a tightwire of legal responsibilities and remedies. If IRS decides my approach deserves a penalty, I'll just throw in the towel (along with several other older preparers who feel the same way I do) and let the IRS have the mess they have created.

I mention "other older preparers?" During a 2007 seminar, the instructor asked how many (of some 125 enrollees) were under 30. Only two of us. For another show of hands, over half of us were over 55. Guys and gals, I'm afraid MOST of us fall into the classification of "other older preparers."

JG, I'm not one of the board members who buy into this idea of more and more "cover your butt" efforts, but I agree that there is more and more of it, and increasing discussion as how to deal with it. And much reason for their concern.

[JG EA]

Thanks for your thoughts! It is all well and good to say I'm going to do this and that to protect myself and guard myself from the traps that I use to think of as clients, but when someone is in front of me I think I don't want to worry them or scare them either. I just want to do their tax return.

Easy for me to say - I can take this road because I have weeded out people that make me uneasy or require me to worry too much about their problems for not enough money to make such worry worthwhile.

[Gretel]

Easy for me to say - I can take this road because I have weeded out people that make me uneasy or require me to worry too much about their problems for not enough money to make such worry worthwhile.

I don't want to buy into the scare either but it's very hard not to get paranoid. What you say here is the most important point in my opinion. I believe not matter what we do to try protect ourselves we cannot accomplish this. One very bad incident could wipe out almost anyone of us.

So, the best protection is to follow our gut feeling and not work with clients we don't feel comfortable with. I am not quite there yet but it is certainly my goal.

Instead of getting more and more paranoid I rather would want to fight the IRS in court and get wiped out or go to jail (if this actually should happen to me I will let you know if I can stand behind this statement).