Organizer

[Brad Imsdahl]

The 2008 Client Organizer is now available for download at:

http://www.thetaxbook.com/updates.asp?1=3

[MAMalody]

I am curious as to why the tax organizer does not take into account the split year for the standard mileage rate? Maybe I looked to fast and somebody can direct me how it does that? Thanks

[Brad Imsdahl]

I am curious as to why the tax organizer does not take into account the split year for the standard mileage rate? Maybe I looked to fast and somebody can direct me how it does that? Thanks

The problem has been fixed. Try it now.

[erchess]

Signature

Why is there no place for the taxpayer to sign?

[AZ-Tax]

I create my own organizer using the TTB one but...

I try not to ask questions for which a tax document will automatically be issued to the taxpayer. Example: I do not ask about W-2 income, 1099-R income, 1099-I income etc. but state they need to bring all their tax documents. I dont think I have one client that would take the time to complete TTB organizer 100%. I wish TTB would place this form in a MSWORD format so we can, cut and paste etc.

[Bees Knees]

You will notice TTB organizer does not have numbered pages. Each page can stand on its own and is not dependent on having any other page attached. Thus, I plan to send each client only those pages that are applicable to their situation based on last year’s info. If I know a client has never had rental property or was never self employed, I won’t send them those pages. Basically the only page I really care about is the second page where they are to answer a number of yes or no questions. Everyone will get that page.

I did have an audit experience a few years ago that I will never forget, which illustrates the importance of sending each client at least some sort of organizer. The client contacted me after getting hit with an extra $5,000 in tax as the result of an audit he never told me about. I agreed to get involved after the fact. One thing the auditor tried to pull was to disallow most of his charitable donations. My client had a flood a few years ago in his basement and lost his records and receipts. The auditor said although he believed my client to be honest, without the original receipts, he could not allow all the charitable donations. I said I had the original organizer that my client had filled out for that year, listing all of his charitable donations. I said at the time he filled out his organizer, he had the receipts as that was prior to them being destroyed. I said if you think my client is honest, then he would have honestly filled out that organizer based on his receipts.

The auditor allowed all deductions, based on the fact that I had the original organizer. Anytime anyone complains about the purpose of an organizer, I tell them that story.

[Jiggers]

I also us an organizer

While I don't use TTB or anyother professionally prepared organizer, I prepare my own after reviewing samples of theirs. I hate sending one to my clients when a major portion of the organizer wouldn't apply.

My organizer has the basic questions that CMA for due dilligence. I do require the client, either one or both, to sign. This is a community property state and I will be filing only MFJ returns for them.

I don't ask about anything on 1099INT's, 1099DIV's, W-2's, 1099R's, or 1099B's.

I have the following question in the organizer: "Did you receive any income not reported elsewhere, such as tips, prizes, awards, lottery winnings, gambling income? All income must be reported even if no W-2, 1099, K-1, or other reporting document is received."

These are mailed with my year-end letter, checklist, and engagement letter. Failure to complete these forms before getting to my office for their appointment adds $25 to my fee!

[AZ-Tax]

Good organizer input.....

It’s very helpful to hear how other tax professionals handle their organizers. Each page of my organizer has a place for the taxpayer to initial, then the last page (mandated) the TP signs. Instead of giving them sections and/or pages that pertain to them, I have a box and the first question in the box is the main question. Example: Did you receive any alimony payments in tax year: Yes or NO. If they marked yes, then the TP needs to complete all applicable questions within the box. If the TP marks no, then the TP can skip this box and go to the next box. I mentioned under each main question that if the TP has document(s) that contain the date required in this box, please skip completing this box and bring the document(s). The TP must initial the page regardless if the TP marks no to all boxes on that page. 2007 tax year was the 1st for my organizer and I asked each client their opinion of my tax organizer. I had some clients tell me they did not understand some of the questions so this year I plan to add an instruction page. All of this is placed on my website but I have a handful of clients that are not internet savvy. As an incentive, I offer a discount off their tax prep bill if my organizer is fully completed but in some cases the simplicity of the organizer and the discount is still not enough for some TP’s. I always wanted to write a book “Consumers are their own worst enemies” I am sure most tax professionals on this board could contribute to this book.

[Lion]

Useful

I too benefit by seeing what's available, like from TTB, and what others do. My clients expect some hand holding and tell me that if they had time to fill out a large organizer they'd have time to prepare their own taxes. I know that's not entirely true, but also know that they'd try it if they had a bit more time, probably used to before they got so busy with their work. I do need to do something more formal about those things without documents, the charitable contributions and mileage and such. I need to have something to send them or hand them to write down and sign. Plus, the list-type-of-thing to remind them what documents to bring. So discreet pages I can pull are good. I like the idea of a place for initials on every page or section and a signature section at the end.

[Gretel]

Address formatting

Thank you so much for the organizer. Last year I used a mix of TTB's one and ProSeries and last year I was able to have my address centered.

Even though I have the PDF program now, I cannot figure out how to center my address. Please help. Thank you.

[fliszt]

Lion,

I too agree with you. I have my own sheets that clients fill out -- (a really flimsy sheet that looks like a Schd A). I also have a sheet that I sent out w/the Jan ltr which tells them what items may be deductible. I've tried worksheet books and NONE of my clients filled them out. Hence, I use my 3 sheet organizer. I'm afraid too if I pushed the issue they'd go to Turbo or someone else. But this year I'm trying the individual pages from TTB and incorporating them into my little 3 sheet-er.

[Elsyie]

Organizer

I try not to ask questions for which a tax document will automatically be issued to the taxpayer. Example: I do not ask about W-2 income, 1099-R income, 1099-I income etc. but state they need to bring all their tax documents. I dont think I have one client that would take the time to complete TTB organizer 100%. I wish TTB would place this form in a MSWORD format so we can, cut and paste etc.

I would also like it in Word. I don't need all of each page and while it's very helpful, it is just too much and my clients will not fill it out either. It would by extremely helpful if I could adjust it.

I do realize each page is separate and I don't need to send each page, but just looking at the magnitude of information on each page will be overwhelming. I could probably delete about 1/4-1/3 of the information because I already have the information before sending out the organizer.

[Bees Knees]

Customized or shorter versions of organizer

I understand that most clients will not fill out a detailed organizer like TTB. However, that is not the point. The organizer is not so much for your client’s benefit. It is for your protection.

Example 1: You give a one page checklist to your clients with a few basic questions. You do not give a detailed organizer like TTB because you know your client won’t fill it out. Two years later, IRS audits the return and hits your client with AMT due to a stock option. You never asked the client about stock options as he/she had never exercised one in the past. Your short version of an organizer never asked the question. Your client sues you for the tax, interest, and penalties which are now double the original amount. In court the plaintiff’s attorney asks you why you did not ask about stock options? You say because your client had never exercised one in the past.

Example 2: I give my TTB organizer to my client. My client never fills it out, although the question is there on page 2 where it asks:
“Were you granted, or did you exercise, any employer stock options during 2008?”
Two years later, IRS audits the return and hits my client with AMT due to a stock option. I never asked my client about stock options as he/she had never exercised one in the past. My client sues me for the tax, interest, and penalties which are now double the original amount. In court the plaintiff’s attorney asks me why I did not ask about stock options? I say I did ask about stock options on the organizer I sent to my client. The question about stock options on page 2 was left blank. My letter that I sent to my client asked he/she to fill it out in order to make sure I am alerted to any and all possible tax situations, new or old. My client chose to disregard my instructions.


Question: Who has a better chance of winning? You in example 1? Or Me in example 2?

[Elsyie]

I understand that most clients will not fill out a detailed organizer like TTB. However, that is not the point. The organizer is not so much for your client’s benefit. It is for your protection.

Example 1: You give a one page checklist to your clients with a few basic questions. You do not give a detailed organizer like TTB because you know your client won’t fill it out. Two years later, IRS audits the return and hits your client with AMT due to a stock option. You never asked the client about stock options as he/she had never exercised one in the past. Your short version of an organizer never asked the question. Your client sues you for the tax, interest, and penalties which are now double the original amount. In court the plaintiff’s attorney asks you why you did not ask about stock options? You say because your client had never exercised one in the past.

Example 2: I give my TTB organizer to my client. My client never fills it out, although the question is there on page 2 where it asks:
“Were you granted, or did you exercise, any employer stock options during 2008?”
Two years later, IRS audits the return and hits my client with AMT due to a stock option. I never asked my client about stock options as he/she had never exercised one in the past. My client sues me for the tax, interest, and penalties which are now double the original amount. In court the plaintiff’s attorney asks me why I did not ask about stock options? I say I did ask about stock options on the organizer I sent to my client. The question about stock options on page 2 was left blank. My letter that I sent to my client asked he/she to fill it out in order to make sure I am alerted to any and all possible tax situations, new or old. My client chose to disregard my instructions.


Question: Who has a better chance of winning? You in example 1? Or Me in example 2?

Great point!!

[erchess]

In both scenarios

the real winners will be the lawyers for both sides.