John H

[Black Bart]

Since it's the weekend and I maybe can get away with a GM comment (without draggin' up that huge thread again), I think they ought to go ahead and bail them out. I listened to the hearings and despite my previous ranting and raving, I kinda agree the economy couldn't take the fallout of lettin' them go bankrupt even if everybody would like to teach them a lesson. What do you think?

[S T]

Hearings

BB

Did you get to listen/watch both the Senate and House hearings! Fascinating, I always listen to the economist's on the panel!

Huge decision, but it could be prudent to lend some now and then let the new administration to re-evaluate!

Tough call, since government is in a changeover on administration.

Sandy

[JohnH]

Bart:
I didn't get to listen to the hearings, so I can't rule out the possibility that something discussed there or somewhere else might change my mind. However, the situation the auto makers are in at the moment is precisely what the bankruptcy laws were written for, IMO. An inefficient company continues to pile mistake upon mistake until it becomes non-competitive and fails. Then it becomes a matter of whether to try Chapter 11 or just go straight to Chapter 7. It seems that Chapter 11 might benefit the domestic auto companies in the long run if they can survive, but there's no question it would be painful in the short run and might not work, which would almost certainly mean Chapter 7 as the end game. Maybe that's just too scary a prospect to contemplate.

Then there's the "prepack" bankruptcy option that was discussed on Bloomberg a week or so ago. It's a variation on Chapter 11 which removes much of the uncertainty (altough not all), and pretty much lets everyone know where they stand going in. I know nothing about the details, but it seems that something of this magnitude would certainly call for extraordinary measures.

Maybe I'm just being too simplistic, but it just seems that what the auto excecutives are saying to Congress is the same thing most of us have heard from failing mom & pop businesses for years. "If the bank will just loan me some money to get throught this tough time, we'll come out the other side OK - I promise." Lots of optimism and good intentions, but no willingness to actually do what's necessary to make the business profitable. We're hearing this exact same story out of Detroit, but on a grand scale.

[S T]

Banks

John

Well is it odd that government has provided all this money to Citigroup, AIG, and others and none of them are lending to any small business owner or any person that is approaching foreclosure. Do we as Taxpayers even know where this money was spent! And there appears to be no oversight committee on how those funds are being used, and no transparency!

I am starting to wonder about the judgment of Bernecke and Paulson and our current Administration.

I certainly don't agree with the bailout or funding for the "Big 3", but then I didn't like that Treasury spent the other monies as well with the rush and no accountability, I was totally against that!

Sandy

[Black Bart]

Yes, I did.

BB

Did you get to listen/watch both the Senate and House hearings! Fascinating, I always listen to the economist's on the panel!

Huge decision, but it could be prudent to lend some now and then let the new administration to re-evaluate!

Tough call, since government is in a changeover on administration.

Sandy

And I have to say, our Senators and Cogresspeople (most, but not all) impressed me with the quality and depth of their questions. They actually asked questions that reasonable people would and I guess we should watch things like this more to give us a sense of security about government instead of just lumping them all into the "those crooked politicians" category.

[S T]

C Span

Forgot we had CSpan availabe until the last few weeks, and I have been really interested in some of the telecasts. Oh my gosh, I could not believe what is really telecasted, and guess we should all watch more often.

We really get an inside "track" and find out personalities of some of the people up there that we vote for!

Very interesting! Much better than CNN, FOX, and the local news in some cases!

Sandy

[Black Bart]

Bankruptcy

...no willingness to actually do what's necessary to make the business profitable...

Yeah, I think that bankruptcy would be best to make them cut what's needed and they probably won't otherwise. UAW said they'd "suspend" Jobs Bank -- not necessarily kill it. And when the CEOs made their first trip, in addition to not having reconstruction plans, they were in some instances unwilling to furnish certain information their businesses and how they'd spend the money. Sort of like the bankers deals (the ones that borrowed money to lend out and then wouldn't lend out) -- they wanted a blank check with no strings.

Still, thinking about the impact on small towns (like mine) -- there's probably at least half a dozen parts stores and car dealers in every town in the country. I don't know how many would be laid off, closed, etc. but it's awful to think about. The execs, of course, predicted catastrophe all across the country and we know why they're doing it, but the question is, "What if they're right?'

[Black Bart]

I completely agree

Forgot we had CSpan availabe until the last few weeks, and I have been really interested in some of the telecasts. Oh my gosh, I could not believe what is really telecasted, and guess we should all watch more often.

We really get an inside "track" and find out personalities of some of the people up there that we vote for!

Very interesting! Much better than CNN, FOX, and the local news in some cases!

Sandy

I had sort of forgotten about CSpan and the talk back and forth is so much more interesting and engaging than the dramatic "sound bites" featured on the networks that, yeah, we should watch it more. As you say, you get a good insight into each state's reps and are able to form a valid opinion of their character/intelligence/honesty, etc.

P.S. I don't think I like that CA Rep. Waters -- what do you think of her?

[Black Bart]

You're also right about this, Sandy.

John

Well is it odd that government has provided all this money to Citigroup, AIG, and others and none of them are lending to any small business owner or any person that is approaching foreclosure. Do we as Taxpayers even know where this money was spent! And there appears to be no oversight committee on how those funds are being used, and no transparency!

I am starting to wonder about the judgment of Bernecke and Paulson and our current Administration.

I certainly don't agree with the bailout or funding for the "Big 3", but then I didn't like that Treasury spent the other monies as well with the rush and no accountability, I was totally against that!

Sandy

There weren't sufficient conditions put on the banks and so they used it for their own purposes rather than as the government wanted it done. If you recall, several senators and representatives specifically mentioned that at the hearings and vowed that they would not repeat that mistake with the auto guys -- strict conditions this time or no loans.

[DTS]

...P.S. I don't think I like that CA Rep. Waters -- what do you think of her?

What is the old saying that if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all..

[S T]

Several Reps and Senators

BB

At this point there are several Reps and Senators that if they were on a Nat'l US vote I would not vote for them. I can't believe they have been in either position for as long as they have been.

That is why CSpan was so interesting to me, not just the topic of the "Big 3 Automakers", but what about the "Big Reps or Senators". I found out more info regarding "the people we vote for" rather than what the "big 3 negative/positive was! I guess my question is why are paying some of these people to represent us!??

Hopefully there will be change in the near future (like the next 10 years) Of course by that time some of these people will take their retirement and we are still paying!

What a MESS!

BB, personally I wouldn't vote for M Waters either, Los Angeles District, Ca, but she has been there for a long time and she is representing a "minority" District. She should take advantage of the situation and retire early! Hopefully that District will vote someone new in or at least retire her from the Finance Committee!.

Sandy

[JohnH]

Pardon my cynicism, but I expect that the Congresspeople were mugging for the cameras more than actually trying to get answers. Right now they know that about 60%+ of the public is opposed to a bailout, so they have to look as though they are "doing the people's business" when the cameras are on. Balanced against the public mood is the problem that so many of these politicians are already bought & paid for. In some ways, they remind me more of the actors in the public hearings in Godfather II, especially Senator Geary.

After all the Q&A, they huddle in the back room to jockey for political advantage and trade off votes with very little regard for anything beyond how it will affect their reelection in their district or state. During that process, nothing matters in the way of the public interest unless it just happens to coincide with ther political interests. The problem is, when they are trading votes, they are also gambling with their constituents' livelihoods. A prime example was when John Kerry let down his guard during the last election and said "I voted for it before I voted against it." Poorly worded response, but exactly on point.

[Burke]

There weren't sufficient conditions put on the banks and so they used it for their own purposes rather than as the government wanted it done. If you recall, several senators and representatives specifically mentioned that at the hearings and vowed that they would not repeat that mistake with the auto guys -- strict conditions this time or no loans.

Let's hope they don't repeat it with the next level of funding authorizations either. They did not give the financials all the money up front, and they can sure change the rules the next time around. Just saw where a plant gave workers 3 days notice of closure since Bank of America rescinded their line of credit and they could not pay the workers. The $$ was supposed to prevent this. The workers took over the plant to prevent any selling off of assets by the bank or the company.

[JohnH]

Maxine Waters, when asked to comment on the 1992 LA riots:

"If you call it a riot it sounds like it was just a bunch of crazy people who went out and did bad things for no reason. I maintain it was somewhat understandable, if not acceptable. So I call it a rebellion."

Translation:
"Who are you going to believe; me or your lyin' eyes?