Will there be new, low cost tax prep software?

[Joe Btfsplk]

Apples, oranges and varying priorities

If a client has one W-2, mortgage interest, real estate taxes, and charitable contributions, I can guarantee you I can fill out the return and assemble it using the old NCR carbonless forms faster than you could ever do it on a computer. Is that a reason for me to go back and forth between computer filing and doing it by hand?

The year I switched 100% of my clients to e-filing, everyone’s fee went up $35. Period. No exceptions. Didn’t lose a single client. The few times I have to spend an extra minute or two typing in W-2 data has been compensate for with a permanent fee increase. Even people who owe money like e-filing as they have an acknowledgement the return was accepted on time. You didn’t give it a fair shot, as you tried to walk the fence with one foot on each side.

Your first point is like comparing apples and oranges.

Your second comment makes me wonder why you didn't cut your fee by $ 35 due to the extensive benefit you obtained by efiling.

Obvoiously some people are enamored with efiling and should continue doing so. There is no more reason for those who dislike it to switch to efiling than there are its proponents to discontinue. It is mostly a matter of priorities. You may prefer to save the time it takes to print extra copies and do additional mailing while others prefer to spend less time on input work and updating programs for the latest efiling update.

[Bees Knees]

I don't completely rule out efiling. I even recommend it in a few cases. If someone is getting thousands of dollars refunded, I recommend it as a means of speeding up the refund. But if the same person owes money the next year, I tell them there is no reason to efile.

Your "proof" of the value of efiling is based on false logic if you think someone who efiles 100% of his returns then switches back to paper filing is the only person who could reasonably dedide it wasn't worth it.

If a client has one W-2, mortgage interest, real estate taxes, and charitable contributions, I can guarantee you I can fill out the return and assemble it using the old NCR carbonless forms faster than you could ever do it on a computer. Is that a reason for me to go back and forth between computer filing and doing it by hand?

The year I switched 100% of my clients to e-filing, everyone’s fee went up $35. Period. No exceptions. Didn’t lose a single client. The few times I have to spend an extra minute or two typing in W-2 data has been compensate for with a permanent fee increase. Even people who owe money like e-filing as they have an acknowledgement the return was accepted on time. You didn’t give it a fair shot, as you tried to walk the fence with one foot on each side.

[Joe Btfsplk]

E filing them all

If anyone efiled every tax return one year it is unlikely that they would decide not to efile in the future. The reason is not because efiling is all that good, but because anyone who goes whole hog on anything probably won't suddenly decide to do a complete about-face.

If someone became a serial killer for a whole year, is it likely that they will decide not to kill anyone the next year because it is easier to not be a killer?

Why would anyone efile hundreds of returns before they decided they preferred not to efile?
Obviously anyone who filed thirty or forty to give it a try would decide before going on and doing hundreds more.

I tried efiling and found it was more trouble than it was worth, but kept doing it for a while to make sure I gave it a fair chance to prove its worth. I thought there might be something I was missing at first so I efiled about 30 returns before deciding it wasn't worth it. I was then stuck with efiling for some of those clients in future years. Some, I agree, are not a problem--same job, same employer, etc., but others are constantly changing. What if someone changes banks and doesn't tell you?

I don't completely rule out efiling. I even recommend it in a few cases. If someone is getting thousands of dollars refunded, I recommend it as a means of speeding up the refund. But if the same person owes money the next year, I tell them there is no reason to efile.

Your "proof" of the value of efiling is based on false logic if you think someone who efiles 100% of his returns then switches back to paper filing is the only person who could reasonably dedide it wasn't worth it.

[Bees Knees]

I've tried efiling and I have complaints. I efile a few, but mostly paper file since I find efiling 1040s takes more time with input work

Sorry. E-filing a few does not count. I mean go through an entire season e-filing every return. Then the following season, after all W-2 and 1099 info is in your system, where you generally have very little to enter from year to year.

You can’t give an honest critique when you try to do a little of it. Getting into a routine is important for any major change in procedure. Everyone who complained about computers back in the 80’s tried to do a few returns on the computer and the rest by hand. That didn't work. It isn’t until you do it all the time and get comfortable with it before you will see a difference.

If you ever read the ATX message board you would see hundreds of posts entitled, "Where's my ACK?"

If a return gets rejected you have to spend an inordinate amount of time deciphering the error code to see what is wrong. It seldom has anything to do with the data that would go on a paper-filed return which you sometimes have to send in order to get the return accepted.

One more reason not to use ATX.

I use ProSeries. I’ve had two rejections in the 4 years I’ve been e-filing. One because I entered an EIN wrong. Took 2 minutes to correct. One because of a sister trying to claim a refund for her deceased sister. That one needed to be filed as a paper return. Other than that, everyone one went through without a hitch.

No big deal.

Still looking for someone out there who has gone through an entire season e-filing and decided to go back to paper filing...

Anyone?

[sdiazea]

Renewing Early

>These software companies want your renewal before May 1. <

But ATX is offering the 10% discount through June 30. So I have to figure out whether that's a better use of my money, than buying puts on Intuit .. .

I used to think it was prudent to always take the early bird discount however, I now think it is prudent to hold onto my money until I have to spend it. I always buy ATX MAX and the discount only amounts to $100 so why should I put out $1,000 over six months early. A 30% or more early bird discount might be a little more attractive, but probably not. I think 9/11 changed my way of thinking. If I have to leave I'd rather my family get my money than leave it with a tax software company.

[Joe Btfsplk]

>>Some where along the way you stopped being ahead of the times.

Sorry OldJack. But I only hear complaints from those who haven’t tried it yet.

.

I've tried efiling and I have complaints. I efile a few, but mostly paper file since I find efiling 1040s takes more time with input work. I have no objection to use of electronic means when it is more efficient. For example, efiling 1099s is a lot more efficient for me. Efiling W-2s is also my preferred way and efiling extension requests. All of these require almost no extra information than paper filing. But efiling for people who have changing W-2s and 1099s every year require adding and deleting a lot of garbage that paper filing doesn't require.

I see no reason to efile 941s, 1120s, 1065s etc. I don't do that many of these, but I see constant questions on message boards about these and problems related therto.

If you ever read the ATX message board you would see hundreds of posts entitled, "Where's my ACK?"

If a return gets rejected you have to spend an inordinate amount of time deciphering the error code to see what is wrong. It seldom has anything to do with the data that would go on a paper-filed return which you sometimes have to send in order to get the return accepted.

As far as I can see, efiling should be used sparingly and only in cases with no complicating factors or information that may change significantly from year-to-year.

It's not all bad, but it is certainly not always the best way to file.

[erchess]

What's this about printing and signing 8453s?

I do Pins and they are usually accepted. If I have to do an 8453 occasionally it's no biggie.

[BOB W]

[QUOTE= I do have office help now, with enough spare time between answering phones, scheduling appointments and otherwise dealing with clients to take care of all the assembly, copying and packaging that some e-filers seem to dread.[/QUOTE]

It is nice to have an office staff for "show" purposes, makes the office seem busy and yes it takes some of the pressure off for small followup tasks. Because of efiling and other intergrated programs I control 99% of the activity at my desk and I only need 1/2 of an employee to do write-ups. This year I grossed $225,000 on 450 personals and 75 entity write-ups with tax returns> Me and 1/2 of an employee. And if I wanted to do more, I could do 35 more writeups and 100 more personal tax returns with the same number of employees.

At this point I spend about $9,000 a year for all accounting and tax programs. What is 9K in relation to 225,000> Nothing>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So when I hear people talking about the cost of tax programs it makes me think that they are spending bookoo $ on staff that a good program and intregration of programs could reduce overall expenses by $30,000 a year. Efficency of operation is the name of the game.

E-File is just one part of the overall picture> no packaging required> thus> no one needed to package.

[OldJack]

>>Some where along the way you stopped being ahead of the times.

Sorry OldJack. But I only hear complaints from those who haven’t tried it yet.

Why don’t you give it a try next tax season. Then we can debate the merits and see which is better.<<

As usual you have your head stuck somewhere instead of looking at what I have posted. I have never complained about efiling and have only stated my reasons for not doing it which includes the fact that I don't have clients that are interested in RAL's or immediate refunds. I don't have now and would not accept such undesirable clients.

Now that all the software companies appear to be charging for efiling, I would be an idiot to sign up for costs of something my client's aren't interested in and I don't have to provide. In spite of what you think you are not saving anything by efiling.

[Bees Knees]

I'm one of the old-timers who tried to sign up the first year, back in the 80s, but got the message that IRS did not want sole practitioners and intended to exclude them by requiring bidirectional modems, which at the time were already obsolete but cost as much as professional software costs now. I did not have the ethical constraints then, that I have now, regarding random inspection of client files by gun-toting gonzos. I do have office help now, with enough spare time between answering phones, scheduling appointments and otherwise dealing with clients to take care of all the assembly, copying and packaging that some e-filers seem to dread.

No comparison to how it works today. That’s like saying I don’t like computers because I don’t want to learn DOS commands.

I had a PC using CPM operating system back in the early 80's before IBM introduced their 1st PC or the DOS operating system. So I would say I was ahead of the times then and I consider myself still ahead now, but that doesn't make me want to assume responsibility and liability for filing my clients tax returns.

Some where along the way you stopped being ahead of the times.

Sorry OldJack. But I only hear complaints from those who haven’t tried it yet.

Why don’t you give it a try next tax season. Then we can debate the merits and see which is better.

[OldJack]

If not, those who have never tried it sound no different than the old timers back in the 80’s who thought computers were a waste of time.

I had a PC using CPM operating system back in the early 80's before IBM introduced their 1st PC or the DOS operating system. So I would say I was ahead of the times then and I consider myself still ahead now, but that doesn't make me want to assume responsibility and liability for filing my clients tax returns.

[George Boutwell]

If not, those who have never tried it sound no different than the old timers back in the 80’s who thought computers were a waste of time.

I'm one of the old-timers who tried to sign up the first year, back in the 80s, but got the message that IRS did not want sole practitioners and intended to exclude them by requiring bidirectional modems, which at the time were already obsolete but cost as much as professional software costs now. I did not have the ethical constraints then, that I have now, regarding random inspection of client files by gun-toting gonzos. I do have office help now, with enough spare time between answering phones, scheduling appointments and otherwise dealing with clients to take care of all the assembly, copying and packaging that some e-filers seem to dread.

[BOB W]

Three years ago I forced all clients to E-File or go elsewhere. Some didn't like it, but they all loved it the following year.

I was so happy to get rid of the packaging portion of completing tax returns. I was able to eliminate that task off of my helper. I print the client copy of the return, staple the full sheet of the W-2(s) to the back and put it in the mail. Packaging> Soup to nuts> 2 minutes.

Once a client is set up for E-File, each year after is just a quick review for any changes. Initial learning curve is minimal but I can appreciate a first time users reluctance. What I have found> is that more functions are placed on the preparer just to get the tax return done. Maybe 3-4 minutes on the initial client set up. After that I found that I did not need any employee help because I was totally done when the client left the building.

[Bees Knees]

I have an idea.

Anyone out there switch to e-filing, did an entire season e-filing every return, then decide paper filing was still better?

If not, those who have never tried it sound no different than the old timers back in the 80’s who thought computers were a waste of time.

[Bees Knees]

There are two types of clients: Those who can't wait another couple weeks for a state refund that resulted, usually, from their compulsion to use the system as a bank account paying no interest; and, all the rest. You can have the first group, I'll take the second.

I had the same argument with my boss back in 1988 on whether it was better to do tax returns by hand verses using a computer.

We should save this thread and look at it 10 years from now and see if you still feel the same way.