8879

[AJsTax]

And out of curiosity, what might you do when spouse #2 "cannot" sign a joint return, using your apparent definition of that term??

FE

There are very specific procedures to follow when a spouse is unable to sign. We usually get out the pub or 1040 instructions to read to a client when that happens.

I am sure there is much to learn and to adjust to in the 10 billion pages of tax code. I will never do it 100% correct, neither will anyone else. That is impossible. We just do what we feel is correct and least likely to cross paths with the IRS.

I have had some very loud and heated discussions in the past year over school and medical records for my dependent son at college. Who ever came up with those totally asinine rules have no clue how the world really works. As long as I am paying for everything I have the right to know everything. Period! end of discussion for me.
Thanks for you input, I do learn from dissention more than agreement some times.

[travis bickle]

I must be missing SOMETHING, so

Can mom sign for dependent son who is away at college?

please enlighten me.

WHY is mom trying to sign for someone else's return? If the son is her dependent, she puts him on her 1040 AND he files his own return where he is living, checking the box that says someone else claimed him.

So, again, why is mom trying to file someone else's return?

Incidentally, the only thing I found at the IRS website [a SOMETIMES reliable source for IRS information] is the following from Pub 17:

Responsibility of parent. Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own tax return and for paying any tax on the return. But if a dependent child who must file an income tax return cannot file it for any reason, such as age, then a parent, guardian, or other legally responsible person must file it for the child. If the child cannot sign the return, the parent or guardian must sign the child's name followed by the words “By (your signature), parent for MINOR child. . . . . (my emphasis)

[FEDUKE404]

Still think thin ice exists

This one says "child" without definition and in the final part "minor child". I still do not believe alone disqualifies the parent from signing for a dependent child away at college.
Do we send some to college to be signed?, sure...but at times it is not practical.
Now what all would construe "cannot sign the return"? A child at school can not sign the return at that time so a parent should be allowed to. The IRS does give us permission to have a parent sign that return.

Over the years I've had plenty of quite young children (including my own) sign their name to a tax return. It's always been my understanding that a parent/guardian would sign when the child was too young or perhaps disabled (physically/mentally) to sign a name.

I would personally have a very hard time justifying a dependent in college is a minor and/or "cannot" sign the tax return. To encourage such apparently just to speed things along sounds like a trip down a path which I would not personally care to take.

(As a somewhat poor analogy, although my college age children are still on my insurance policy, I am prohibited from any/all discussions over their medical services, claims, etc. unless they authorize me to know such. And I also am blocked from any discussion about college grades, courses, etc unless the student gives the school written permission for me to know that information.)

And out of curiosity, what might you do when spouse #2 "cannot" sign a joint return, using your apparent definition of that term??

FE

[ChEAr$]

Who is a child?

A child is a minor as defined by state law, and remains so until he reaches the age of emancipation as defined by state law.
It might be 18 in some states, 19 in others.

[AJsTax]

The opinion does have legal bais,

Should have clarified in your first post that it was your office's policy to allow parents to sign the 8879.

Your office's policy does not make it legal or right. I would be delighted if I could be shown otherwise, would make life easier for me on those college dependent returns.

gman, I would assume, was asking the question because he wanted to know the correct legal answer.

as do all our actions. At least we strive for that. I would not have carried that opinion for so long without basis.
this is quote from IRS instructions:

"Child's return. If a child has to file a tax return but cannot sign the return, the child's parent, guardian, or another legally responsible person must sign the child's name, followed by the words “By (your signature), parent for minor child.”

This one says "child" without definition and in the final part "minor child". I still do not believe alone disqualifies the parent from signing for a dependent child away at college.
Do we send some to college to be signed?, sure...but at times it is not practical.
Now what all would construe "cannot sign the return"? A child at school can not sign the return at that time so a parent should be allowed to. The IRS does give us permission to have a parent sign that return.

[ChEAr$]

Have any one of you ever had to show the IRS the 8879 to verify the signature?

Never. But if they ever do, they will see some signed by minor children! (grin

[Henrij]

Just curious

Have any one of you ever had to show the IRS the 8879 to verify the signature?

[MRPLOW]

Should have clarified in your first post that it was your office's policy to allow parents to sign the 8879.

Your office's policy does not make it legal or right. I would be delighted if I could be shown otherwise, would make life easier for me on those college dependent returns.

gman, I would assume, was asking the question because he wanted to know the correct legal answer.

[FEDUKE404]

Signature by proxy?

We have always allowed parents to sign for dependents in every office I have worked over the past 15 or more years.
I will not change our methods unless I see something that is very definitive. I have only read the opposite, they can sign.
Is it correct, I am not sure..but I will not change now.

I think perhaps there is a clear difference between a minor versus a dependent....

What if the dependent were a 24 YOA graduate student.....or even a parent???

Although I try to learn something new every day, I am not yet convinced the parent can legally sign in the situation presented.

FE

[AJsTax]

I will have to agree to disagree.

Absolutely not.

Each must sign.

Even dependents unless they are too young to actually sign their name.

We have always allowed parents to sign for dependents in every office I have worked over the past 15 or more years.
I will not change our methods unless I see something that is very definitive. I have only read the opposite, they can sign.
Is it correct, I am not sure..but I will not change now.

[ChEAr$]

IF THEY QUALIFY AS DEPENDENT

Absolutely not.

Each must sign.

Even dependents unless they are too young to actually sign their name.

[FEDUKE404]

Why complicate things?

The lawyers can discuss whether it is legal for the parent to sign. Quite frankly, I would not allow a parent to sign.

On a more relevant point, this issue could easily be resolved with a simple email attachment or the use of a 44¢ postage stamp.......

FE

[Gary2]

IF THEY QUALIFY AS DEPENDENT

The only thing close to this that I've seen is for the parent to sign for a minor child who isn't capable of signing - e.g., the infant models on the baby food jars. I've never seen anything say that a parent can sign the return or 8879 for a dependent who's capable of signing it themselves.

[AJsTax]

Disagree.

I would like to see where you got the info that it is ok to sign someone else's Form 8879 for an adult who is over the age 18, without a power of attorney?

IF THEY QUALIFY AS DEPENDENT

[PIGLEE]

I also use the email method, works fine.