8879

[dtlee]

Thank you Gary.

I agree. That third link is likely the closest one to what we need.

It is interest to note that the rules for divorced/separated spouses expires so differently in the states. It certainly doesn' tmake our lives easier.

[taxxcpa]

Will the IRS send a handwriting expert?

If someone unauthorized signs for their husband, wife, child or neighbor, will the IRS send a handwriting expert to catch the forgery?

[Gary2]

What are those ? My son who is 21 has never had a check. The bank did not issue any when he opened his account.

Now he needs checks to pay his rent. Had to help him order them from the bank. Online of course.

Why not just have him schedule automatic payments from his account? My credit union will even mail them, at no cost, if they don't have ACH info to do a direct deposit.

[veritas]

Checks?

Yep, evidentually, some of these whipper snappers ain't all that smart. Yesterday, a college freshman came BACK in to get directions as to how to make out the check to IRS to include with his 1040-V. The cover letter explaining that was right there.

I just filled out the check for him cause it was quicker than spelling "United States Treasury" and waiting for him to locate an actual ink pen. Plus I'm sure he would have said, "But I thought I had to pay IRS."

Hope the little fella signed the check and put a dang stamp on the envelope. He may still be trying to fit it into the disk drive on his laptop.

What are those ? My son who is 21 has never had a check. The bank did not issue any when he opened his account.

Now he needs checks to pay his rent. Had to help him order them from the bank. Online of course.

[Gary2]

Here's a link that discusses the difference between majority and emancipation in MA: http://www.clcm.org/minors_rights.htm . Item number 3 is the one that points out that reaching the age of majority doesn't imply emancipation, along with some court citations.

Here's a link that has a summary of state law citations, though in following some of them, they're not always reliable: http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_emancipation

Finally, here's a link that has a summary of "age of emancipation for child support": http://www.divorcesource.com/tables/...cipation.shtml . I don't know how reliable the information is, but my intuition says that the emancipation for child support purposes is the concept that the IRS should be using for the more relevant discussion of the divorced parent dependency rules.

[dtlee]

Just a reminder: The age of majority and the age of emancipation are two distinct concepts. In many states, they're the same, but not all.

Just to continue this a bit, I was given the impression that children below the age of majority cannot sign a contract and thus, once they reach majority age can change the way to report savings bond interest (if for example, the parents were reporting it annually rather than at maturity until then...I have an EA friend who did that with his daughter).

Thus, I am wondering if the "cannot" in the instructions means that they are not legally able to sign the return as opposed to being not physically able. The phrase the signer seems to have to use includes the words "parent for minor child."

Gary,

I am wondering if you have a reference to the difference between emancipation and majority and if you believe that financial emancipation is what the IRS Qualifying Child regulations is talking about or if it is something else when they discuss a child reaching the age of emancipation in a given state. Massachusetts for example defines emancipation as being either financial or decision making and a person may have one and not the other. I am not sure which of these would be used to determine if a parent actually has "custody" of a child. It seems that custody is more related to making decisions than having financial obligations, but I admit it has me baffled.

Also, does anyone have a link to the ages of majority/emancipation by state. This is somewhat critical for the dependency rules for divorced and separated parents.

Thanks.

[travis bickle]

Dear Rita (and also a nod to AJ)

Yep, evidentually, some of these whipper snappers ain't all that smart. Yesterday, a college freshman came BACK in to get directions as to how to make out the check to IRS to include with his 1040-V. The cover letter explaining that was right there.

I just filled out the check for him cause it was quicker than spelling "United States Treasury" and waiting for him to locate an actual ink pen. Plus I'm sure he would have said, "But I thought I had to pay IRS."

Hope the little fella signed the check and put a dang stamp on the envelope. He may still be trying to fit it into the disk drive on his laptop.

you prove my point ... supposed to be able to go to college, but cannot do an EZ (I realize I am oversimplifying... some kiddos will have 1040A's and some will have 1040's) ... but they are still unable to complete the document ... sigh... the flower of American youth.

[RitaB]

These Whipper Snappers

Yep, evidentually, some of these whipper snappers ain't all that smart. Yesterday, a college freshman came BACK in to get directions as to how to make out the check to IRS to include with his 1040-V. The cover letter explaining that was right there.

I just filled out the check for him cause it was quicker than spelling "United States Treasury" and waiting for him to locate an actual ink pen. Plus I'm sure he would have said, "But I thought I had to pay IRS."

Hope the little fella signed the check and put a dang stamp on the envelope. He may still be trying to fit it into the disk drive on his laptop.

[AJsTax]

I have been doing individual returns for 14 years. I have never had the OP's situation. I have had plenty of times where the parents and child(ren) returns were all done at the same time, but never this.

And, as an aside, I am not too sure about a society where a college student is incapable of preparing his/her own tax return.

In my expewrience, 99% of the college studentst that do prepare their own return "because they know how by then" do it incorrectly and we end up going back and having to mail the parent's and amend the students. This happens so many times we advise all our parents with college kids to advise them against preparing their own. We hundreds of these types of returns every year.

[travis bickle]

Just an FYI

I'm guessing you haven't worked in the industry very long if you think parents aren't routinely helping their children file their taxes.

I've got a lady who comes in and brings me her son's tax forms every year - I've never done her taxes. He comes in and signs the forms or he mails them back to me.

I have been doing individual returns for 14 years. I have never had the OP's situation. I have had plenty of times where the parents and child(ren) returns were all done at the same time, but never this.

And, as an aside, I am not too sure about a society where a college student is incapable of preparing his/her own tax return.

[taxea]

IF THEY QUALIFY AS DEPENDENT

What you allow and what is correct may not be the same thing. Would you allow the wife to sign for the husband on a MFJ return? Maybe years ago this would have been acceptable but since the advent of overnight mail, email, fax etc I don't think it would fly now. The court wants the original document as evidence when it can be gotten, not a copy of the document because that was more readily available....your practice wouldn't fly in court so it shouldn't be used just because it is more convenient.

The only place I know that the parent can sign for a "dependent" is a hospital and that applies only for a minor or disabled, not an adult in college who the IRS is allowing the parent to continue to declare on their return.

[Roberts]

please enlighten me.

WHY is mom trying to sign for someone else's return? If the son is her dependent, she puts him on her 1040 AND he files his own return where he is living, checking the box that says someone else claimed him.

I'm guessing you haven't worked in the industry very long if you think parents aren't routinely helping their children file their taxes.

I've got a lady who comes in and brings me her son's tax forms every year - I've never done her taxes. He comes in and signs the forms or he mails them back to me.

[ChEAr$]

If someone is blind, they might still be able to sign, but would have difficulty in getting the signature in the right place. Would the spouse or someone else be allowed to sign and what explanation would be used--it would have to be brief, so "My husband is blind and cannot sign the return so I'm signing his name for him" would be too lengthy

And that's why my one blind client always signs the 8879. His wife helps guide his hand of course.

[taxxcpa]

Unable to sign

If someone is blind, they might still be able to sign, but would have difficulty in getting the signature in the right place. Would the spouse or someone else be allowed to sign and what explanation would be used--it would have to be brief, so "My husband is blind and cannot sign the return so I'm signing his name for him" would be too lengthy

[Gary2]

A child is a minor as defined by state law, and remains so until he reaches the age of emancipation as defined by state law.
It might be 18 in some states, 19 in others.

Just a reminder: The age of majority and the age of emancipation are two distinct concepts. In many states, they're the same, but not all.