PA chasing taxes due via preparer

[BOB W]

Caller ID ???? Can't that be controlled by the caller? I usually don't rely on it to be fact. Maybe I am wrong......................

[taxmandan]

I hate to break the news to you, but tax preparers are agents of the government. Circular 230, which now applies to all practitioners says on page 15 under Section 10.20:



There is no requirement that IRS (or a State agency) first obtain a court order for this request. Our duty is to give the government information that is requested, unless we believe attorney client privilege is at issue (which tax preparation does not fall under).

If I were an IRS agent asking this information from you, and you gave me the "get a court order" response, I'd tell the PTIN guys to suspend your license for failing to follow Circular 230, Section 10:20.

Since when does Circ 230 apply for state tax authorities? It concerns federal tax issues and as far as everything I learned at NTPI a "proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service" involves a summons. A verbal request for information isn't "proper', documentation is everything in this business.

A request from the tax authorities can be challenged in court by the taxpayer. If you disclose without summons or a POA in place, you are denying the taxpayer due process to quash the request in court. You will be violating the taxpayers' rights and subject to serious legal trouble. Keep your E&O insurance current. I'll stick to the education I got from the legal beagles at NTPI and insist on a summons.

I doubt that a Rev Agent can tell OPR to suspend a PTIN. They can forward a complaint of misconduct and that would be litigated under due process as a Circ 230 practitioner if OPR deems it an offense worth pursuing.

[Peachie]

I know it can be trying to

Just curious, how the calls from the state come through on caller ID. Lately, (the last 3 weeks), I've had an excessive amount of calls listed as "Unavailable" usually from toll-free numbers. I rarely answer these, because when I do they are usually "robocall "solicitations. I am on the "do not call list" for whatever good that does.

rlmea

answer "Unavailable" or Out of Area calls, but I do any way and here's why. I started thinking one day if something happened to me because my phone didn't work (or it coud be one of my loved ones), and I had to borrow someone's phone and the number didn't reveal the caller, and no one answered because the number's not recognizable could result in a very bad end in these difficult times. I have had two friends describe exactly what I'm saying. I'd rather answer the phone than be sorry I couldn't help someone that needed me, or someone wasn't able to help me because they didn't recognize the number and chose to ignore it. We don't always have access to our phones with identifiable numbers. Just a thought.

Peachie

[kpangelinan]

Just curious, how the calls from the state come through on caller ID. Lately, (the last 3 weeks), I've had an excessive amount of calls listed as "Unavailable" usually from toll-free numbers. I rarely answer these, because when I do they are usually "robocall "solicitations. I am on the "do not call list" for whatever good that does.

rlmea

Maine says "Govt" and a local number appears.

[Rlmea]

Caller ID

Just curious, how the calls from the state come through on caller ID. Lately, (the last 3 weeks), I've had an excessive amount of calls listed as "Unavailable" usually from toll-free numbers. I rarely answer these, because when I do they are usually "robocall "solicitations. I am on the "do not call list" for whatever good that does.

rlmea

[erchess]

Interesting Thread

I had a call back in late December from an IRS agent. I feel pretty sure he was an IRS Agent even though it was after 9 pm my time because he certainly knew everything that was going on with a client for whom I had POA. Still it would have been wise for me to ask for a confirmation fax. Live and learn.

[kpangelinan]

In this context, is a request for paperwork different from an attempt to collect a debt (past due tax?)

Another good point.....I think it would be the same.

[BP.]

If someone really wants to find out, just refuse to give them the paperwork and repost on this thread what really happened.

In this context, is a request for paperwork different from an attempt to collect a debt (past due tax?)

[kpangelinan]

I don't disagree with most of the post, however I wonder what a proper and lawful
request is?

A practitioner must, on a proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service

I understand "proper and lawful request" to be either a subpoena or summons, or at least something in writing. Is a phone call from a State employee a "proper and lawful request"? I doubt it.

This is a good point, however, I believe that the IRS (via Cir 230) can have it mean whatever they want it to mean, that being said, if someone really wants to push the issue, they'd just issue a summons.

If someone really wants to find out, just refuse to give them the paperwork and repost on this thread what really happened. If no-one reposts, I'll just keep doing what's been working for me the past decade or so.

[BHoffman]

I understand "proper and lawful request" to be either a subpoena or summons, or at least something in writing. Is a phone call from a State employee a "proper and lawful request"? I doubt it.

[Gene V]

I don't disagree with most of the post, however I wonder what a proper and lawful
request is?


A practitioner must, on a proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service

[kpangelinan]

Just in case anyone has not yet put 2 + 2 together, this is, after all, the prime reason why IRS has decided to put some teeth into their authority over the tax preparation business. They want us to act as agents for the State. There is no doubt about that.

I don' t know about this. Since when did the IRS care about state taxing authorities?....they've always kept their business separate in my state and in a decade with dealing with the state of Maine taxing authority, they're just in it for their own.

I personally see this as a way to get rid of some of those preparers and to get people to go to higher more reputable and educated professionals....doing this at least cuts down on the fraud portion of tax prep and mistakes. Studies have shown that unlicensed preparers are much more aggressive or likely to cheat for their clients (in order to make them happy for a great referral business) then a licensed representative such as a CPA, EA or Tax Attorney. They have a lot more to lose....in their eyes anyways. Only 2 years ago, a guy got caught doing just what I suggested and is spending 6 years in a federal prison.

I also see this with the changing of the EA licensing process and continuing ed requirements (ease of).

I think the difficulty is determining, over the phone, that the caller is an authorized agent of the state (PA, in this case).
I had a call from PA concerning one of my clients and his sales tax return. I don't prepare his sales tax return, only his PA-40. I told the caller that I don't prepare his sales tax returns. They obviously got my name from the PA-40, though, as paid preparer. When I told her I don't prepare his sales tax returns, she said she would take my name off her contact list.

Like I said and was already mentioned here....a fax from a state taxing authority should be fine and is good enough for me and have never had a problem to date.

[Terry]

Authorized agent

I think the difficulty is determining, over the phone, that the caller is an authorized agent of the state (PA, in this case).
I had a call from PA concerning one of my clients and his sales tax return. I don't prepare his sales tax return, only his PA-40. I told the caller that I don't prepare his sales tax returns. They obviously got my name from the PA-40, though, as paid preparer. When I told her I don't prepare his sales tax returns, she said she would take my name off her contact list.

[Bees Knees]

If I were an IRS agent asking this information from you, and you gave me the "get a court order" response, I'd tell the PTIN guys to suspend your license for failing to follow Circular 230, Section 10:20.

Just in case anyone has not yet put 2 + 2 together, this is, after all, the prime reason why IRS has decided to put some teeth into their authority over the tax preparation business. They want us to act as agents for the State. There is no doubt about that.

[Bees Knees]

If you roll over for the taxing authorities in any manner without court order you risk your reputation in the community and will be branded an agent of the state not your clients. I would never provide any information except under court order (admin summons, etc.) Even if I verify it is an actual state tax person contacting me. At NTPI they even provided the correct phraseology to use: "The courtesy of a summons is requested."

I hate to break the news to you, but tax preparers are agents of the government. Circular 230, which now applies to all practitioners says on page 15 under Section 10.20:

"A practitioner must, on a proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service, promptly submit records or information in any matter before the Internal Revenue Service unless the practitioner believes in good faith and on reasonable grounds that the records or information are privileged."

There is no requirement that IRS (or a State agency) first obtain a court order for this request. Our duty is to give the government information that is requested, unless we believe attorney client privilege is at issue (which tax preparation does not fall under).

If I were an IRS agent asking this information from you, and you gave me the "get a court order" response, I'd tell the PTIN guys to suspend your license for failing to follow Circular 230, Section 10:20.