Nys Update

[New York Enrolled Agent]

I give the Sperry argument no chance at all. An EA is authorized to represent clients before the IRS. Nothing in the NY registration law hinders or affects that at all.

Don

You may very well turn out be correct but the NYSSEA suit makes something interesting arguments under the Supremacy and Equal Protection clauses. Give it at least some chance.

Stranger things have happened in NY.

[S T]

Thank you

Thanks Lion,

Pictures-sometimes are worth 1,000 words

Added: Thanks soooooo much Lion - with what you faxed - I was successful in registering with NY, so now official - what an ordeal. I have heard that many people have not been successful in registering with IRS e-services and I was successful at that - but I for sure had a hard time registering with NY

All is well



Sandy

[Lion]

Sandy

Sandy, if you want to PM me your fax number, I'll send you the pages from that seminar going through the NY registration. He included the screen shots of going through the process. I haven't done it myself; waiting until the last minute. But, I know I'll have to register, so guess I'll get to it soon.

[S T]

Less than 10

I don't mind registering as long as I don't have to pay a fee and I am under 10 returns

Just wish I could manage to get through the NY site to register - I keep receiving an error message.

Sandy

[erchess]

Something to object to

Now I find out something NY has done that I object to. I don't want to keep up with any more numbers so I think until the dust settles I won't do any more NY returns.

[DonPriebe]

Not quite there yet.

The case before the Supreme Court is interesting, but often cases like this end up getting remanded back to the states.

Original post ...

NYSSEA has a lawsuit pending in the Supreme Court, New York County, to have the registration law declared unconstitutional based on the U.S. Supreme Court Sperry case which mandates that no state can hinder a federal license granted by an act of Congress.

The New York "Supreme Court" is the court where claims are initially filed. It's at the bottom of the chain. From there you go thru the Appellate Division and finally to the Court of Appeals before you get into the federal appellate levels and finally to the USSC.

I give the Sperry argument no chance at all. An EA is authorized to represent clients before the IRS. Nothing in the NY registration law hinders or affects that at all.

Don EA in Upstate NY

[Snaggletooth]

That just about does it

Thanks Lion, and from your message it appears my homespun plan of simply preparing a paper return for an out-of-state resident would result in disaster. Not for my client, but for the preparer.

This means I will be forced to choose between charging for the extra trouble and outright refusal to prepare the return. The case before the Supreme Court is interesting, but often cases like this end up getting remanded back to the states.

[Lion]

Ny

The web site registration will take at least 20 minutes to get through all the screens and receive your NY registration number. You will need it for any NY returns. You will register annually. If you prepare 10 returns (or 10 returns last year and will do at least 1 next season), you will have to pay the $100 fee online. You might want to wait until after you have filed 10 returns. NY will NOT reject your returns, but you will hear from them with a penalty bill; you have 90 days after the bill is sent to pay the original fee to remove the penalty (the removal is in the statute, so it must happen). Once you pay the fee, you will have to pay $100 annually, even if you never file 10 returns ever again. You will not get your fee refunded if you prepare fewer than 10 returns or if NY exempts EAs at some future date.

From the NYSSEA web site: "NYSSEA has a lawsuit pending in the Supreme Court, New York County, to have the registration law declared unconstitutional based on the U.S. Supreme Court Sperry case which mandates that no state can hinder a federal license granted by an act of Congress. Legal briefs have been filed. The next step is the oral argument before the judge. Hopefully there could be a decision as early as 30 days after that."

To contribute, make checks payable to NYSSEA and mail to

Victoria McGinn
President - NYSSEA
38 Vautrin Ave.
Holtsville, NY 11742

All the above came from the NY/CT-ATP Seminar this past weekend. The NY speaker was Cos Borzumate, EA, from Fulton, NY, who is a member and instructor for NATP and the NY Chapter of the NATP.

[erchess]

New York

It seems like NY has two concerns. They obviously want their complex tax laws complied with and probably have on a percentage basis more errors on returns prepared out of state than prepared in state if only because the in state preparers each do more NY returns and besides the in state preparers are easier to penalize for errors than the out of state By saying that only registered folks can prepare NY returns for a fee they are attempting to insure compliance with their laws. If someone makes too many mistakes their registration will be revoked and they won't be able to do NY returns. To me that's reasonable. They are also seeing TPs as a source of revenue. But the fee is only $100. While I do a few returns for $75 most are over 200 and any involving a state other than NC alone or SC alone or TN alone is going to be over 200. So I guess I could live ok in a world where my home state and any state where I filed ten or more returns in a calendar year each charged me $100. Remember that each payment for a license is a deductible expense so you end up escaping Federal and in the states I deal with most state taxes on these expenditures.

I do totally agree with Snags that the NAEA and the organizations open to all preparers (I know only of NSA NATP and NSTP but perhaps there are others) each have a golden opportunity to attract my membership by winning serious reciprocity among the States in terms of registering tax professionals. I currently belong to NATP and NAEA but if another organization obtained reciprocity among most state regulators I would drop one of my present organizations and join the one that was giving me reciprocity.

[Snaggletooth]

Reciprocity

As more and more tax authorities require registration, the ultimate answer is for them to establish common reciprocity.

I can promise NY is not interested in chasing down preparers in other states who prepare only one or two NY returns. Whether they are capricious enough to deny acceptance of returns is another question, especially if that is their method for enforcement of preparers who do hundreds of returns.

It has been awhile since I have done a NY return (15 years) and the odds are stacked against my preparing one for this year. If this happens, it will certainly be either a part-year resident or non-resident.

What would happen if I prepared a paper return for a non-resident, and my client simply just mailed it in? NY could reject it, but this would mean rejection of my client's efforts as well. Not sure that would be prudent to reject the attempt of a non-resident to file a return.

Those of you who read my posts know that my "real-world" experience often surpasses my "textbook" experience. And I don't attempt to convince you that my homespun solutions are better - I just simply find them to often be expedient. I have no intention of spending hours on a NY website or sending them a wheelbarrow full of money just to file one return. I will attempt to file a single return, explain the situation to my client, and NY can either take it or leave it.

This is a golden opportunity for orgs like NATP or NAEA to forge a common registry for state and local taxing authorities, even to propose each registrant to pay their respective fees. States that want more rigorous registration qualifications would be able to enforce their will on their own preparers. For out-of-state preparers, they could either offer reciprocity for this common registry or else deal with the problem on their own.

My state, for example, would much rather offer reciprocity than to administratively deal with regulation of out-of-state people.

[BOB W]

You have to first register yourself and then register as a tax preparer within that folder....

[S T]

Update

Thanks Uncle Sam for update and for those of us that are EA's we will hope that we will also be exempt
I am under the 10 returns - so it is only registering if I am understanding correctly
One would think that NY is only concerned about the Tax Preparer that is not under the "Professional Designation" such as Attorney, CPA or "EA"

Bob, congrats on registering - I am going to try one more time - maybe I just was on the wrong entry screen - but yes a lot of questions - and they seem to be a little ambiguous for a Professional Preparer registering - as I don't file any NY returns for myself.

Sandy (tilt 53) you can register for one and it won't cost you any fees the way I understand it - so guess you have to decide how important that (1) client is -

I have 2 full time residents and one non resident - all good money returns and long time clients- so I have to figure it out

Grr! Things should just not be this complicated

Sandy

[BOB W]

Sandy, I just registered> boy they ask a lot of questions............

[Uncle Sam]

NYS Update

From the way I read the law the way it was passed -
CPAs and Attorneys - regardless of which state they're licensed in-are exempt from having to register OR pay the $ 100 fee.

All others are subject to register if they prepare at least 1 NY return. If they prepare 10 or more NY returns, they're subject to an annual $ 100 fee.

[tilt53]

I'm not going to jump through hoops. I told my 1 NY client to find a new preparer.