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    Gaining new customers

    Hey! I have a question which is a spin-off from my last question pertaining to mileage deductions for construction workers. This is really troubling me because I am trying to build my tax business. I work out of my home (in the country-I do offer free pick up and delivery within 20 miles which gets me into our big city nearby) and last year for my first year I did 15 returns. This year I was hoping to double that number.

    Since I am doing my best to gain new customers, it makes it difficult when you have people who had preparers who in the past allowed something I won't. I had one customer last year who wanted to deduct her leased land payments on Schedule A because she had always done it in the past, but with the research I did and the fact that 2 out of 3 IRS agents said "no". I went with no. I am almost positive she won't use me again this year.

    With these 2 co-workers of my husband wanting to use mileage deductions that are very questionable and most likely not allowed, how do I gain a new customer when I won't allow things they want? They say, "H & R Block allows it." I try to defend with the fact the H & R Block asks minimal questions. I am very thorough.

    For example, back in 2000 I had a man do my taxes who is pretty big in our area. My husband and I sat down with him and were asked questions like "do you travel for your job?" That year, my hubby had traveled to the U.P. of Michigan (we're in Northern MN) many times. He was paid travel pay by the company, but we weren't asked that, and we didn't think about it (I realize it now obviously). The guy asked, how many times he traveled there, and approx. how many miles was it. He did some simple math, and put down miles for deduction. Also, he asked "did you donate to goodwill?" I said that I always donate lot's of clothes each year. He asked, approx. how many bags? I told him probably 20 white kitchen garbage size. He said, 'well at $20 per bag, times 20 bags, that's a deduction of $400. He asked my husband if he had any work clothes or tools he paid for himself. My husband said yes. The tax preparer said "about how much do you think you spent?" We said approx. $300-$400. He then put that down too. We had receipts for none of this! He didn't ask for them and we didn't think we had to have them. We were 22/23 years old at the time and nothing seemed out of the blue to us. He was helping us to get more money back, and who wouldn't trust a tax preparer?

    Because of all this, I am so leary of taking chances. I don't know how common audits are and am not aware of what exactly would fall onto me in the event it happens. But I'll be honest, it scares me to death! I want to grow my business, but it seems I am ticking of potential customers by not doing what they want me to do and have always done.

    What are your thoughts?

    #2
    Customer Seeking

    Just hang in there, do what you know is right and they will come. I had some of the same thoughts as you do. When I started 30 years ago the first 5 years, I thought that I would starve. Then the word got around that I could be trusted to do what was right. I am an EA for 30 years. Knock on wood (my head) I have only had 4 major audits with my clients and won each time with the IRS. One audit I had to travel to Los Angeles from Utah, do to my client being from Calif. The audit lasted 12 minutes. I now have a 2 person office (myself and wife) servicing almost 500 clients per year. Be careful and document any thing you say or do for the client.

    Enough of my being like a truant officer. Good Luck

    Kurly

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      #3
      Ease of Location

      The business has changed a great deal. Unless you have a "nich" being out of the customer flow will make it difficult. Get to a point were you can sublet an office in a higher traffic area. Even if it for 1, 2 or more times a week. Es, faxes and computers have made it easier. You can always do returns from your home, but to grow business from the country will be difficult. Go for it.... Word of mouth is the best form of advertising.

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        #4
        I often worried about deductions clients were asking me to take. I decided that I couldn't worry myself over a deduction that I know is wrong. I know its hard starting out because you want the clients. I guess I'm still in that position. I've had my business for 5 1/2 years and have around 120 clients. I would really like to grow some more too.

        I just tell myself that I am doing what I know is correct. They can go somewhere else if they don't like it. I've had atleast 5 leave because of this reason. They often hear someone else say they can take it off or a previous preparer deducted it. You just have to tell them the reason why and stand firm. If you don't and things come back in audit they will most likely blame you. I've been in tax preparation for 11 years and so far only had two audits. Both have come out well.

        If you can afford it get a ad in the Yellow Pages. This brought me alot of good customers and has helped me build my business up. As Jon mentioned you might like to rent a office one or two days a week. I know there is a place here that lets you rent the space by the day, week or month. Alot of home businesses use this to meet clients.

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          #5
          Being new

          Thinking back 30 years to when I started, I too went to clients' homes to do their taxes. As you grow you will likely find out that is too much a burden on your time and, if you are percieved as being a knowledgeable tax person, the clients will come to you.

          We all run into clients (or would-be clients) who may want us to just make up numbers that are within parameters that will fly through computer audit tests BUT I think you will find the vast majority of people who come to you really want to be honest and will rely on you to get them their best return in a legal manner.

          Besides spending too much time traveling to the client, my other mistake starting out was
          to undervalue my knowledge and time. I charged way too little in the beginning.

          Comment


            #6
            Clients and doing it right

            Don't be concerned about audits, they are so rare you can almost disregard the threat. And, fear of an audit should not be the reason to prepare a return correctly anyway.

            You will find clients who want it done right. Practice a response that you can use when someone wants to do something that is wrong. I've even used the risk of audit as a reason why they don't want to go there. "Boy, that will sure raise a red flag to the IRS, they're always looking at _________ for audits, 'cause they KNOW people do it wrong." Scares 'em back to the right thing to do. If not, then get rid of them as clients.

            My favorite client came to me six years ago telling me all about how the income tax is unconstitutional and he wanted me to view the video he got from some tax protest group and tell him what I thought. I took the video, didn't bother watching, and did not tell him what I REALLY thought of their ideas. Later I did explain how dangerous this idea was and thru calm discussion convinced him that he should file his returns truthfully to save his family from some serious problems. He's been a great client since, and accepts anything I say regarding taxes.

            There are honest folks out there and they will find you.
            "A man that holds a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way." - Mark Twain

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              #7
              Growing business

              I am starting my fifth tax season in my office and feel this is the best move I've made since preparing taxes. I started out with zero clients and grow every year. You need to find what works for you when it comes to building a clientele. Try a little of this and a little of that. You will gain tons by listening to everyone here, as they have all been where you are at one time or another.

              I really liked all the suggestions you've received on your post. Two points in particular:

              I like geekgirldany's suggestion to you about always doing the right thing. If a client doesn't like it, show them the exit and quick! You'll sleep much better and not worry about this client for the next several years.

              The other suggestion given to you by Mike Mac about not undervaluing your service is very important. I think it takes all of us a few seasons to understand this, but the sooner you understand what he's saying, the happier you'll be.

              Good luck and have a prosperous second year!

              Dennis

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mblatour
                I had one customer last year who wanted to deduct her leased land payments on Schedule A because she had always done it in the past, but with the research I did and the fact that 2 out of 3 IRS agents said "no". I went with no. I am almost positive she won't use me again this year.
                People who suffer through reading my posts know that I'm distressed over what I consider to be the horrible tend of tax preparers who willingly act as government enforcement agents and prepare tax returns based not on their interpretation of tax law and spirit of advocacy for their clients, but out of fear of what an IRS auditor will say.

                It's been a while since I took the EA exam, but from what I remember, a "reasonable" position is defined as a position that 1 out of 3 tax professionals would accept. If you believe 1 out of 3 auditors would allow a deduction, in my opinion you're not being an advocate for your clients if you recommend against taking the deduction for that reason.

                I fully agree with taxmandan that fear of an audit is no way to approach a client's return.

                Please don't consider yourself nothing more than an arm of the IRS. I enourage you to pursue the field. But if you're preparing returns from the standpoint of being terrified a return might get audited, you might as well just go apply for a job with the IRS.

                Look at it this way. You're taking steps and working hard to build on your success. If you become a successful tax practitioner, you're going to have audit. Don't work from a position of fear. Do your best to educate yourself on the law. Chances are that when (not if) your first audit comes, if you've done your homework and I'm sure you will, you'll have a better knowledge of the relevant rules than the revenue agent will. If it was you, would you want a frightened representative fighting your case with the IRS?

                Learn the rules that apply to your clients' positions. If you believe a deduction is valid, recommend that your client take the deduction (the final decision for any shade of gray is the client's). Please, for the sake of the industry, don't fall into the crowd who prepares a return based on what you're worried that an auditor with an anti-taxpayer agenda would want. The folks at the IRS are good people, but in a big way they rely on people being scared and laying down for them. If you're going to be in this business, you need to put your fear aside and replace it with knowledge and confidence.

                I'll tell you my approach that's been successful for me. I prepare every single return assuming that it will be audited. For gray areas, I ask myself the question. "Could I defend this position?" I won't put antlers on the dog and call him Rudolf. But I do take my responsibility as an advocate for my clients very seriously. As far as your first audit? It's just like a young kid who's just starting out in baseball, terrified of being hit by a pitch. Then that beanball comes in and SMACK! Ouch, it's not a pleasant feeling, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you thought it would be, you get to first base, and you'll wonder why you got yourself in a dither about something that's not as horrible as what you convinced yourself it was.

                If I were you I'd be looking forward to that first audit. Sort of like that first ding in that new car. Once it's over, you'll be able to relax and the second one won't hardly hurt at all.
                Last edited by Armando Beaujolais; 01-20-2006, 12:18 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Aggressive

                  Duluth, thanks for coming to the board - this is a great place to ask questions such as the one you present.

                  From your post, I believe you must be more aggressive in advocating deductions than you appear to be. The guy you went to in 2000 is much more "on track" than you give him credit for being. (I do think he went a little too far when he didn't ask if mileage was reimbursed, however.) For example, if he asks most clients to value their goodwill bags, such a conversation could last half-a-day, with minimal dollar value to anyone. He didn't ask for receipts - you shouldn't either. You should take the customer's word for granted without trying to perform an auditor's job. (Unless of course, the customer is giving you suspicious information)

                  You should make it plain to your customers that it is their own responsibility to present the facts to you, and that you will be preparing based on that information. You also present yourself as advisor for how to conduct transactions, how to keep up with information, how to "tax plan" for the future, and how to keep the tax effect in perspective of their total economic plan.

                  Go for the biggest refund you can. Endow yourself with a "sixth sense" of asking questions to turn up deductions that the customer will never think of. (This takes experience, as well as digging, digging, digging on occasions)

                  YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT. People are interested in the biggest refund or the least tax bill for themselves. They are not interested in whether you are a CPA, EA or how many years experience you have or how pretty your office is. You've got to be that kind of tax preparer -- money versus image. And be that kind of preparer without throwing ethics and truth out the window. Customers must know you are doing the best for their tax situation without selling you down the river in case of audit.

                  Best wishes to build on your 15 customers. My first year was 1976, and I had only 2 customers. I at least doubled every year for 6-7 years without advertising, and I think you can look forward to the same!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Asking......

                    ..............your current clients for referrals has always worked for me.
                    This post is for discussion purposes only and should be verified with other sources before actual use.

                    Many times I post additional info on the post, Click on "message board" for updated content.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ask your clients if it's O.K. to call them at work with the results. I've gotten a lot of new clients that way.

                      "That was my tax preparer, etc., etc."

                      "I still need to get mine done."

                      "Oh, talk to so-and-so. Here's their number."

                      When you get a large number of clients, chances are that you'll find clusters of them working for the same company.

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                        #12
                        Building your Clientele

                        I took the HRB tax course in 1984.Had a regular job but went to Block and worked part-time for 10 yrs.Also taught their tax school for 7 yrs.I retired from my regular job and left Block
                        Anyway I have build a business up throught word of mouth which is the best advertising, I offer a reasonable fee,good service and deduction that I know is wrong that they will have to go elsewhere.Also treat each client as if they are very special(which they are) and go the extra mile.I started with 10 clients and now have 380.

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                          #13
                          Donanita how long have you been in business for yourself?

                          Makes me think I need to be doing something extra to help build my business.

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                            #14
                            I have found that the type of practice you want will generally determine its size. I specifically refuse to do RALs or other bank products, and, therefore, I get very few (one or two) EIC clients each year. Since I do write-up, many of my tax clients are business owners and their employees. The fees generated by business returns and 1040s for upper income people help make up for having a small practice. The write-up work provides income on a year 'round basis. All word-of-mouth at this point, and, as has been pointed out here, that's the best advertising you can get.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Gaining and Losing Customers

                              You will always have customers you lose every year for some reason or another and others you gain.

                              People can get quite ticked when they don't like what you have to say. I had a new client last year with several issues. She's a firefighter and wanted a meal deduction for what she paid into the kitty at the station even though it wasn't required. She had also sat down with someone at that big tax prep corp. That preparer didn't know what to do when she told her she was a partner in a business but guessed she might get a $400 refund. When I calculated a $95 refund on actual numbers, she was mad at me and wanted to know why the other preparer could get her more. Then to top it off, she was currently starting a divorce with her husband out to sea (she had no power of attorney). This was going to be the last year to file a joint return. She was also mad at me because he needed to sign the efile form and wouldn't give up his contact information. Why, because on an MFS return, he would get thousands back and she would owe thousands. But, who's fault is that, it's mine, of course because I'm the bearer of such news. So she's mad at me for that too. I know I'll never see her again.

                              On the otherhand, I picked up several new clients by referrals from existing clients. I always reward my referrals with a small gift certificate or a special discount. I end up getting flowers, cards and hugs from my best clients, and they're paying me too. Why, becuase it's the good service that is provided. And they know they can trust me.

                              Hang in there and do what's right.
                              Last edited by Snow White; 01-20-2006, 04:13 PM.
                              Snow White, EA

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