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    New ATX program

    The new ATX program will automatically take care of a lot of the questions discussed on this board.
    ACQUISITION DEBTover $ 1 million is now on the Schedule A worksheet for mortgage interest deduction. It was not there last year unless I overlooked it.
    SIMPLE IRA - Just fill in the worksheet and the program calculates the deduction (or over-contribution) and puts the deductible amount on the right line.

    Other worksheets do the same thing. All you need to do is fill in the blanks. Of course you still have to know whether a blank needs to be filled in and where to enter it. I believe most other tax programs have these features also.

    Consequently, it seems pointless for self-study CPE courses to ask so many questions about allowable amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, taxable social security and a lot of other things the computer will calculate so you can spend your time on things you really need to know like what you are going to eat for Thanksgiving.

    #2
    Idiot Lights

    Yes Joe it's like why teach kids to add and subtract anymore since they all have hand-held calculators.

    Why should any of us learn tax expertise? All we have to do is let the software gurus do all the research.

    Then the whole world can just buy TurboTax...

    Comment


      #3
      Clients ask questions.........

      And don't forget, we have to answer our clients questions, so we need to know exactly what the software is doing and why it's doing it (that is when the software is automatically doing parts of the return). You know, the question we get sometimes like "Why did I not get all my IRA deduction? My neighbor did!".

      Comment


        #4
        My comments must be misunderstood

        You guys have a much different view of the tax business than I do. Knowing the laws is more important than your skills for adding numbers in your head and memorizing numbers you can look up if necessary.

        My comments have to do with the relative importance of memorizing a lot of figures such as exemption amounts--which, of course, clients DO ask about. I realize that you have to be able to answer such questions, but most of the answers are on the cover of the Tax Book and I don't think anyone memorizes every number shown on the cover. Are you guys able to manually calculate the taxable income for each bracket for single, MFJ, MFS an HOH without looking it upl?

        How about all the phase-outs based on Modified AGI? Do you memorize all the figures? Before I got a computer I had to manually make these calculations. Now the software enables us to focus on the REAL questions. Obviously we need to have a general idea of how to do it manually, and should be capable of doing it manually if it were necessary.

        Even if you know how to add and subtract without a calculator, it wouild be a waste of time and errors would probably occur if you had a hundred numbers to add without a machine to help. Even calculators are more difficult than using excel. I

        Comment


          #5
          Quick Reference Charts

          I find Quick Reference Charts are great for things like AGI phase-outs and CAPS such as the IRA maximum contribution. I keep thsese at my desk and often pull them out whlile with a client. My favorite is the Charts that come with the PPC TAX ACTION MEMOS. There are several and they are great. Car mileage rates, etc. they have many.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by John of PA
            I find Quick Reference Charts are great for things like AGI phase-outs and CAPS such as the IRA maximum contribution. I keep thsese at my desk and often pull them out whlile with a client. My favorite is the Charts that come with the PPC TAX ACTION MEMOS. There are several and they are great. Car mileage rates, etc. they have many.
            I prefer to have all my quick reference charts all in the same place, like ONE book that contains everything, like TheTaxBook does. Its faster and easier to find when you only have to deal with one book rather than a bunch of charts or a bunch of books scattered all over the place.

            Comment


              #7
              Joke?

              Originally posted by Joe Btfsplk

              ...it seems pointless for self-study CPE courses to ask so many questions about allowable amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, taxable social security and a lot of other things the computer will calculate so you can spend your time on things you really need to know like

              what you are going to eat for Thanksgiving.
              When I read your first post I thought it was a joke, considering that last sentence. But then your next post on down the thread seems to indicate it wasn't.

              Was it, and do you really feel we don't need to know the amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, and taxable social security? Although there are certainly more important questions, these are the things that clients ask and expect us to know -- I'd hate to tell a client that I don't know and that "I just punch it in the computer and it works out."

              Comment


                #8
                Reference charts

                Originally posted by Bees Knees
                I prefer to have all my quick reference charts all in the same place, like ONE book that contains everything, like TheTaxBook does. Its faster and easier to find when you only have to deal with one book rather than a bunch of charts or a bunch of books scattered all over the place.
                The Tax Book seems to cover my needs for quick reference info pretty well. I'm looking forward this upcoming season to using both the printed book and the CD to get more detail when needed

                Sometimes I need more detail than the book which I can access thru the CD.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Punch the computer?

                  Originally posted by Black Bart
                  Was it, and do you really feel we don't need to know the amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, and taxable social security? Although there are certainly more important questions, these are the things that clients ask and expect us to know -- I'd hate to tell a client that I don't know and that "I just punch it in the computer and it works out."
                  I'm surprised that you place such emphasis on memorizing figures rather than focusing on understanding underlying concepts.

                  You really dont need to know the exact amounts. What you need to know is the fact that there are exemptions and that they increase a little each year. Youi can look up the exact amount if a client asks without punching it in the computer. All you have to do is look at the cover of he Tax Book.

                  I get these kinds of questions from clients a lot, and am able to answer them. Often they don't really want the exact figures, just a general idea. The more difficult questions are more in the nature of "How much tax will I owe if I sell my rent house?" Memorizing figures won't help answer that kind of question and you have to make some kind of quick calculation (maybe even using the computer).

                  You could memorize all these figures and still not know how to do a tax return, but someone who understood that all these figures applied could do the tax return without committing all these figures to memory. My main point was that CPE courses that focus on asking about the amounts you can take for an exemption are not of much value in actually doing tax work.

                  The same overemphasis on memorizing facts and figures rather than teaching logical thinking in problem solving is one of the faults in the educational system.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Joe: << Are you guys able to manually calculate the taxable income for each bracket for single, MFJ, MFS an HOH without looking it upl?<<

                    What do you mean by "brackets"???

                    Isn't those MFJ's, Single, etc. just the governments way of gathering taxpayer information for the Census or who knows what?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yeah

                      Aren't those boxes multiple choice?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Multiple choice &amp; True-False taxation

                        Originally posted by veritas
                        Aren't those boxes multiple choice?
                        They ought to be. As a tax simplification plan all future tax returns could be in the form of a True False test. Question # 1: Is your name Joe Btfsplk? T [ ] F [ ]
                        Question # 2 Your taxable income was 0 -$10000 T [ ] F [ ]
                        Question # 3 Your taxable income was 10001 -20000 T [ ] F [ ]

                        By eliminating all the Falses, the taxable income range could be determined. Then another series of questions within the range could zero in on it to get a more exact amount.

                        I will immediately write my congressman and senators to propose this for the next effort by the government to simplify tax-return preparation.

                        The taxpayer name would, of course, require eliminating all possible names except the taxpayer's actual name. To speed this up, maybe a multiple choice could speed it up by having A, B, C and D name choices with Choice E being "None of these"

                        This would be the greatest thing since taxation without representation.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Misunderstood.

                          Originally posted by Joe Btfsplk

                          ...there are exemptions...that...increase...each year...(just) look at the cover of the Tax Book...they (clients) don't...want...exact figures, just a general idea..."How much tax will I owe"... you have to make...calculation...You can memorize all these figures and still not know how to do a tax return...My main point was...CPE courses that focus on...amounts...are not of much value
                          Well, okay -- I took your first post the wrong way. It stated: ..."all you need to do is fill in the blanks"..."pointless...questions about...amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, taxable social security"..."computer will calculate." I took that to mean you felt those items and other basic tax knowledge was unnecessary -- to let the computer (TurboTax-like) do the thinking. Apparently you were saying just the opposite -- that we absolutely do need to know taxes, but let the computer handle routine calculations.

                          We don't do same-day tax returns, but we give on-the-spot estimates of tax refund/due (if it's not a box case, too complex, lengthy, etc.). And I don't have all those figures memorized -- they're taped to my calculator, though I memorize many (not all) in a few weeks. I mostly know standard deductions, personal exemptions, and the $26K-$32K social security cut-off, but not Modified AGI figures. So anyway, we do general figuring too except that I like to be able to not look up deduction amounts in front of a client. I think I should know most of those and it's a slight negative reflection.

                          I apologize for my earlier post.
                          Last edited by Black Bart; 12-02-2006, 07:02 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Now we are on the same wave length

                            Originally posted by Black Bart
                            I took your first post the wrong way. It stated: ..."all you need to do is fill in the blanks"..."pointless...questions about...amounts for exemptions, standard deductions, taxable social security"..."computer will calculate." I took that to mean you felt those items and other basic tax knowledge was unnecessary --

                            I apologize for my earlier post.
                            I think I see where you were coming from now. Memorizing numbers is not one of my strong points. It's all I can do to remember my phone number.

                            Once, when I worked at ARCO, I found Mobil had not been paying us for ethane they extracted from ARCO leases connected to a Mobil-operated plant. I mentioned that I was going to call John Doe (I can't remember names either). A girl in the office said, "His phone number is XXXX" I'm sure she had probably not had any reason to talk to John more than once in her life, but she never forgot a number.

                            Incidentally John Doe didn't have authority to pay it so I had to talk to someone else who authorized him to pay what they owed. Then he sent the $ 300,000 check to me, personally, instead of to the company and I had to rush it to the cashier before quitting time.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              What charts? Where? You mean the front cover?

                              Originally posted by Bees Knees
                              I prefer to have all my quick reference charts all in the same place, like ONE book that contains everything, like TheTaxBook does. Its faster and easier to find when you only have to deal with one book rather than a bunch of charts or a bunch of books scattered all over the place.
                              Where are all the Quick Reference Charts in the tax book? Are they together? If your refering to the few charts on the front coverr, they are very good, but are not nearly as compresensive as the PPC charts. My PPC charts are indeed all in one place. I keep them in a folder all together. They come in sporadically with the bi monthly Memo's. When a chart come in (or an update of a chart) I simply copy it and put it in the folder. I would like to see THE TAX BOOK (and QF) better utilize the valuable space on the inside front cover and back covers with more charts, rather than IRS statictics and info about the authors.

                              Comment

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