OBTAIN SS4 ONLINE FOR Trust ID

[S T]

Been a while since I have done this online

I need to obtain Trust ID# for a decedent Revocable Living Trust

Questions to assist are Irrevocable Trust , Revocable Trust or Other this gives some confusion

Well since it is a decedent I would think either the Irrevocable Trust or Revocable, then it goes to individual name, which I would think it is the successor Trustee?

Thanks

Sandy

[taxea]

a revocable trust, as a rule, becomes void when the holder dies. You need to read the trust papers. Then if you need to the Trust ID is an EIN# which you can apply for on line from the IRS.

[S T]

Thanks for not much information Taxea, I know that! Really I don't intend to be negative, but if you are going to post, please give information that will assist.

The website asks

Irrevocable Trust
Revocable Trust
Other Trust

Obviously since it is a decedent is now has converted to Irrevocable Trust

As I said - I have not applied for the ID online for some time, so was hoping for some guidance on what checkboxes needed to be oompleted, so I could obtain the EIN online without going "tilt"

Sandy

[mastertaxguy]

Ein-settlor dies leaving 'revocable trust'

FWIW, when applying for EIN numbers in situations you describe we always indicate the trust is irrevocable absent factors not present in your scenario.

You scenario did state that upon the settlor's death the trust was irrevocable.

If there is a probate estate (not mentioned in your scenario) in my view a separate EIN number is necessary for that entity.

[Gretel]

Agreed, but you can also make an election to treat the trust as part of the estate. Depends on duration of trust if you can do this. There is some good information in TTB. This election can be made when applying for the trust ID (did one last month). But absent of knowing all the details I did not make this election when applying but might make it upon filing of the trust tax return.

[Burke]

You do not make the election to treat the trust as part of the estate on the SS-4. You do that on the 1041 tax return when it is filed. In the meantime, you can check Irrevocable Trust on the application for the EIN. It becomes irrevocable on death. Then the terms of the trust take over. If it says distribute all the funds, then you do that and it terminates. If it does not, and continues on then you are set. (Frankly, it does not matter which you check on the SS4, as that has nothing to do with assigning the EIN. It's just that if it is a revocable living trust, then the IRS is not expecting a tax return to be filed until that changes.) The applicant is the Trust so use that name.

Now, are you also applying for an EIN for the Estate? Are you going to make the election to treat the trust as part of the estate because the trust terms are not to keep it in effect? If so, I would only apply for an EIN for the Estate, but it will hurt nothing to have two different EINs, one for each.

[S T]

Thank You

Sandy

[Corduroy Frog]

Necessity of FEIN#

Sometimes none of this is necessary. In most situations a "Revocable" Trust is a disregarded entity. If the terms take effect upon the death of a named party, the trust is no long revocable and becomes irrevocable, as the deceased can no longer "revoke" it.

So until the trust becomes irrevocable, no FEIN# is needed. If the trust is settled quickly before it has been in effect long enough to realize income, I would say that no FEIN# is needed. If it remains in effect long enough to report income (at amounts in excess of filing threshholds) or K-1 distributions, I would get a FEIN#.

Sometimes banks require a FEIN# even when one is not needed. A waste of numbers.

[taxea]

Thanks for not much information Taxea, I know that! Really I don't intend to be negative, but if you are going to post, please give information that will assist.

The website asks

Irrevocable Trust
Revocable Trust
Other Trust

Obviously since it is a decedent is now has converted to Irrevocable Trust

As I said - I have not applied for the ID online for some time, so was hoping for some guidance on what checkboxes needed to be oompleted, so I could obtain the EIN online without going "tilt"

Sandy

you said it was a revocable trust. My answer was appropriate to your post.