SSN Request

[Burke]

Is there an actual law that forbids the requirement of a SSN from a taxpayer for purposes of identification only?

[ChEAr$]

Is there an actual law that forbids the requirement of a SSN from a taxpayer for purposes of identification only?

As I recall from a previous discussion on another board some years ago, there is no law
which forbids usage of SSN's by private businesses. A person may also decline to give
over his number and insist that a dummy # in same format be used, though, that is IF
that company wants his business.

This is akin to some retail stores wanting to see my driver's license in order that I may use
MY credit card. I always refuse and leave the merchandise to clog up their checkout counter.

[Burke]

This is a public utility. Account has been set up for 30 years in husband's name. Wanted to authorize spouse's name so she could talk with them about billing, payments, etc.

[ChEAr$]

This is a public utility.

ACtually I don't even have a social security card, having somehow lost it back in the late
1940's and never bothered to get a replacement.

So I can't vouch for what is actually on one, but isn't there a line somewhere on it
saying it is not to be used for identification purposes?

[Burke]

Yes, it does. However, for years, as you know, many corps and businesses, even states and localities, used it for just that. It was the driver's license number in a lot of them. Most have stopped now, but apparently some still exist.

[OtisMozzetti]

the problem with leaving the merchandise to clog their checkout

...
This is akin to some retail stores wanting to see my driver's license in order that I may use
MY credit card. I always refuse and leave the merchandise to clog up their checkout counter.

As valuable as it is to assert your right, the problem with this is that you have gone to the trouble to go shopping for whatever all you were seeking to buy and now you must go elsewhere or do without or go through a different line without using any credit card.

[ChEAr$]

As valuable as it is to assert your right, the problem with this is that you have gone to the trouble to go shopping for whatever all you were seeking to buy and now you must go elsewhere or do without or go through a different line without using any credit card.

No, I simply go to another store which doesn't have this policy and remember the ones,
like Office Max, which do.

[gkaiseril]

Maybe the store has had a group stealing credit cards and they just want to verify you are who you are presenting yourself as.

I believe the original Social Security Act stated the number was not to be used for any other purpose than taxes and SSA, but there are no penalties for not following the law. Also the number is not unique to an individual and has not self checking features

The Department of Defense in the 1970's used the SSN as the military members service number.

[WhiteOleander]

This is akin to some retail stores wanting to see my driver's license in order that I may use
MY credit card. I always refuse and leave the merchandise to clog up their checkout counter.

Now see, this just proves that we can view things differently. I don't mind showing my DL to ID myself while using my CC. I don't sign the back of my CC with my name. I write "see picture ID".

The signiture on the back of the card does not prove that it is me using the card. So, checking my ID is a safeguard that no fraudulent purchases are being made. JMHO

[gkaiseril]

I just walked past a retail store that had a police bulletin about an ID theft that occurred in that store., The notice described how another retailer check for an additional picture ID and that check lead to apprehension of 1 of 2 individuals. It took less then 1/2 hour from the theft to attempted fraudulent use of the card. The notice was asking for help in identifying the second individual. It also serves notice that there are stores working to fight ID theft.

[S T]

Alternative

I like, White Oleander, have signed the back of my card with "See ID" or See Identification. I want the merchant to ask me for my driver's license and compare my 'photo" and "name" with what is on the credit card.
A lot of banks and credit card companies offer the option to place your picture on your credit card A photo ID on your credit card would be a good deterrent for retail purchases at the location.
Doesn't help with internet purchase fraud.

Sandy

[PIGLEE]

My Social Security Card, obtained when I got married in 1961, says on the bottom of the Card, in caps and not small print. " FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION". This is not on any of the new cards. I do not know when they dropped that statement from the card.

[S T]

From SSA

Following is a brief outline of when a person's social security number is required

Question
Must I provide a Social Security number (SSN) to any business or government agency that asks?

Answer
The Social Security number was originally devised to keep an accurate record of each individual’s earnings, and to subsequently monitor benefits paid under the Social Security program. However, use of the number as a general identifier has grown to the point where it is the most commonly used and convenient identifier for all types of record-keeping systems in the United States.

Specific laws require a person to provide his/her number for certain purposes. While we cannot give you a comprehensive list of all situations where a number might be required or requested, a Social Security number is required/requested by:

Internal Revenue Service for tax returns and federal loans;
Employers for wage and tax reporting purposes;
States for the school lunch program;
Banks for monetary transactions;
Veterans Administration as a hospital admission number;
Department of Labor for workers’ compensation;
Department of Education for Student Loans;
States to administer any tax, general public assistance, motor vehicle or drivers license law within its jurisdiction;
States for child support enforcement;
States for commercial drivers’ licenses;
States for Food Stamps;
States for Medicaid;
States for Unemployment Compensation;
States for Temporary Assistance to Needy Families; or
U.S. Treasury for U.S. Savings Bonds
The Privacy Act regulates the use of Social Security numbers by government agencies. When a federal, state, or local government agency asks an individual to disclose his or her Social Security number, the Privacy Act requires the agency to inform the person of the following: the statutory or other authority for requesting the information; whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary; what uses will be made of the information; and the consequences, if any, of failure to provide the information.

If a business or other enterprise asks you for your number, you can refuse to give it. However, that may mean doing without the purchase or service for which your number was requested. For example, utility companies and other services ask for a Social Security number, but do not need it; they can do a credit check or identify the person in their records by alternative means.

Giving your number is voluntary, even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask why your number is needed, how your number will be used, what law requires you to give your number and what the consequences are if you refuse. The answers to these questions can help you decide if you want to give your Social Security number. The decision is yours.
For more detailed information, we recommend the publication Your Social Security Number And Card .

Sandy

[S T]

US no "True" ID Card

This was interesting

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is no true national identity card in the United States of America, in the sense that there is no federal agency with nationwide jurisdiction that directly issues such cards to all American citizens. All legislative attempts to create one have failed due to tenacious opposition from liberal and conservative politicians alike, who regard the national identity card as the mark of a totalitarian society. In the absence of one, government agencies and businesses have had to improvise with a patchwork of documents, perceived by some to be somewhat inconvenient. In some states it is illegal to not properly identify oneself to a law enforcement official.

Contents
1 Birth certificate
2 Social Security card
3 Driver's license
4 Passport
5 Department of Defense Identification Card
6 Other specialized cards
7 References
Birth certificate -The birth certificate is the initial identification document issued to parents shortly after the birth of their child. This document is issued by the individual states but is the first document establishing U.S. citizenship.

Social Security card-This document is usually issued by the Social Security Administration.

The SSN was originally intended to ensure accurate reporting of payroll contributions so that an employee's Social Security benefits could be adjusted accordingly, and then the employee could claim their benefits upon retirement. Because their original purpose was so limited, Social Security cards were not designed with the rigorous security measures normally expected of identity documents. They did not (and still do not) have a photograph of the bearer or a physical description.

SSN Card with Not For Identification Purposes taglineIn the absence of a national identity card, the Social Security number has become the de facto national identifier for tax and credit purposes. In turn, the epidemic of identity theft in the U.S. since the 1990s has led to various proposals for a national identity card.

Many organizations, universities and corporations historically used SSNs to uniquely identify their customer or student populations, but have since yielded to public demand that the SSN be reserved to government and credit purposes. Instead, they assign their own unique numbers to persons at first contact and request SSNs only when absolutely necessary.

The Armed Forces of the United States replaced the service number (sometimes erroneously called Serial Number) with the SSN in 1974 to identify servicemembers. Recently, some services are ceasing to use the SSN and now make use of an Employee I.D. Number (or EMPLID).

Driver's license-The de facto official identification card for adults in all states is the driver's license, which must be carried at all times when operating a vehicle in most states, and in most states presented to law enforcement officers upon request (while one is driving the vehicle). Driver licensing authorities also make photo based identification cards available for those who do not have driver's licenses.

Driver's licenses issued in any state are recognized as valid identity documents in all other states under a variety of legal principles like comity and the Full Faith and Credit Clause. Many countries also recognize American licenses as valid identity documents.

Besides state agencies, federal agencies also accept driver's licenses as proof of identity for many purposes, such as boarding an airliner.

The driver's license is often requested by private businesses to verify identity, especially in combination with the use of a credit card or the purchase of alcoholic beverages or cigarettes. However, if a credit card holder does not want to provide personal information, such as a driver's license, the merchant has no right to refuse the sale.[citation needed] In fact, it may be in direct violation to the merchant agreement. Auto insurance companies usually request driver's license numbers from drivers seeking insurance for their vehicles. The companies have real-time access to driving records and can immediately access a person's record to assess the risk of insuring them.

Although most American adults carry their driver's license at all times when they are outside their homes, there is no legal requirement that they must be carrying their license when not operating a vehicle.[citation needed] However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states are permitted to require people to say their name when a police officer asks them. See Stop and Identify statutes.

In 2005, the U.S. Congress passed a controversial bill known as the REAL ID Act that will transform the state-issued driver's license into what many contend will be a de facto national identification card (though still not a true one since it will still be issued by the state governments and not the federal government). The transformation will be carried out by giving the Department of Homeland Security the power to regulate the design and content of all state driver's licenses, and to require that all of the underlying state databases be linked into a single national database.

Passport-United States passport and Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative
Americans normally do not obtain passports or carry them regularly unless traveling abroad. (Only 60 million, or 20% of Americans, have passports.) Passports are issued by the U.S. Department of State, although applications for passports are most often filed at United States Postal Service offices, or local county/municipal clerk's offices. For many years a US passport was not required for US citizens to re-enter from countries near the United States (including Canada, Mexico, Bermuda and most Caribbean and Central American nations.) However, in response to recommendations in the 9/11 Commission Report, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security now requires proof of citizenship for people entering the United States from neighboring countries; this requirement is known as the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, and is being implemented in stages:

On January 23, 2007, a passport, U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner's Document, or NEXUS card became mandatory when re-entering from those locations when traveling by air, with a few exceptions.
On 31 January 2008, officers at land and sea ports of entry stopped taking oral declarations of citizenship from travelers; all individuals entering the U.S. are now required to present documentary proof of identity and citizenship.
Beginning 1 July 2009, people entering the United States by land or sea will need to present a passport, passport card, or other document proving citizenship or permanent resident status.
Department of Defense Identification Card- United States Uniformed Services Privilege and Identification Card
Members of the Military and employees of the Department of Defense receive identity documents based on their status. a Geneva Conventions Identification Card (called a Common Access Card or CAC) is issued to Active Duty and Selected Reserve service members, DOD employees, and some contractors. Adult dependents of service members, retired service members, and members of the Inactive Ready Reserve receive a different kind of military ID that does not contain the smart card cryptographic chip that the Common Access Card has.

A DOD identification card number usually matches the holder's Social Security Number.
Other specialized cards-In the absence of a national identity card, the typical adult in the United States often carries a large number of documents issued by many different public and private entities.

The U.S. Federal government issues the following types of identity documents:

Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
Certificate of Naturalization
Immigration and travel-related documents issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services to non-U.S. citizens.
Passport
The passport card is a new travel document available to U.S. citizens for land and sea travel to Canada, Mexico, and various Caribbean destinations.
NEXUS card for travel between the United States and Canada.
The Transportation Worker Identification Credential, a new biometric security identification credential to be phased in by April 15, 2009, issued by the Transportation Security Administration.
The Merchant Mariner's Document, issued by the U.S. Coast Guard.
Other documents that are evidence of an individual's identity:

State/territory driver's license
ID card issued by federal, state, or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color and address
School ID card with photograph
Voter's registration card
Native American tribal document
Other examples of documents involving personal identity include:
Credit cards and debit cards
Internal identification card issued by one's employer, university or school
Proof of professional certification (for members of regulated professions)
Proof of automobile insurance card (when driving)
Health insurance card issued by a private health insurance company, by Medicare, or by a state public health insurance agency
Library cards
Membership cards issued by private clubs (social, athletic, educational, alumni, etc.)
Membership cards (called loyalty cards) issued by private companies (supermarkets, warehouse club stores, etc.)
Membership cards issued by professional organizations
Membership cards issued by private associations
Access documents issued by private or governmental organizations, such as a press pass, or a stage pass
License documents issued by government organizations authorizing privileges other than driving, such as an amateur radio license or concealed firearm permit

Sandy

[ChEAr$]

Thanks

to Sandy for taking the time to cut and paste the above two excerpts.

In order to vote in Alabama, a voter must provide ID, and several types are specified as
acceptable. Since I don't like to use driver's license for any purpose except driving, I will take my US passport to serve the purpose.
However, across the river in Georgia, the state legislature has yet to come up with a
U S gobment approved method of ID, since there is a hue and a cry that demanding
ID's serve the purpose of denying some people the right to vote!

I don't understand the disparity. Unless those certain groups just haven't challenged
Alabama laws yet.

And the beat goes one (to quote a friendly Virginian).